What do you feel is a simple change that could increase our playbase?

Communications Center General Discussion
86

In all the threads asking to end ganking/make PvE only flag/make PvE only server, I notice a common theme that some people claim that there is no “counter play”/protection against people coming to get you. This always confounds me, as watching local and d-scanning will eliminate 90%, if not more, of the threat of people coming to get you in high sec.

Looking back on my own game time in EvE I think I got lucky when a couple of bored veterans started can flipping, and generally messing with a mining operation my corp was on very early on in my EvE experience. We had some good natured pvp, and they taught us how to use d-scan to find people and tell if people were finding you. CCP’s new tutorials are great additions compared to the nothing that I received, but I think there needs to add some kind of a tutorial mission teaching people how to look in local and d-scan to keep an eye on the ships around you. Playing tag with an NPC as it were. I am not sure how hard it would be to script an NPC that would play tag with a new player, and teach them the basic of d-scan, but that seems to be one vital skill that some players desperately lack.

If ganking/high sec combat truly drives newbs away in droves, I think teaching basic d-scanning skills would go a long way towards making people feel less vulnerable.

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87

@Destiny_Corrupted you missed the point.

I am hearing from people in the game that 3rd Party systems can tell a hunter before he even comes into contact with me [ship scans me or otherwise] what my ship is and what its fit is.

That in particular I think is very unfair to players. [If true]

I don’t mind if someone wants PVP, but even then I am not a big fan of third party systems giving all this information that allows someone who has never played with or against me to single me out or a corp and know every precise bit on information on you. Information/Data is more powerful in EVE than actually weaponry.

That is my argument, of what needs to be shut down. If you are using locator agents and other methods in game to track me down or see my normal activities via alts etc. Fine. But. I am not fine with someone having a perfect counter due to some third party data-mining and information gathering tool that allows them to see what I have without ever dealing with me 1v1.

Now this is conjecture because some players have been talking about this in streams and reddit for sometime, since I am solo player and do not use third party items outside of Market apps [So I can see where things are being sold in New Eden.] I do not have any proof other than word of mouth talk of streamers and reddit posters…so I am taking that with a grain of salt.

But if a 3rd Party App was giving precise intel on a targets ship and fit before engagement, I believe it should be a violation of EULA. Post Engagement information is fine…but pre-action intel to the point of giving the attacker the potential to fully negate the defenders build…should not be allowed.

Its not an argument of “safety” its an argument of “fairness” and allowing someone to maybe throw a variable that you wouldn’t be able to predict or pre-fit for. If there is a 3rd Party system giving me information on random EVE players and allowing me to rack up extreme kills in PVP or Ganking. You would have me flat banned inside 30sec. I do not believe this could be 100% true, but the discussions of players in several layers of this game…has me considering it is fully possible outside of theoretics.

Proving it would be straightforward, but then finding out where the data leak and what 3rd party system was used might be tricky to say the least. Just saying.

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Well there’s your problem right there. Nothing that you’re describing actually exists. The only way to get fitting information for someone’s active ship is to lock them and use a ship scanner on them, which has a visual effect so you know that it’s happening.

Maybe don’t get your PvP information from carebear streamers/redditors who’ve never engaged in it to begin with? Just a thought. I’ve sat in many carebear corporations over the years, so I know exactly the kind of asinine ■■■■■■■■ they’re in the habit of saying.

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@Destiny_Corrupted

The weird thing in this all, is you have PVP players describing it.

I have even been alerted by players who know me, saying you are on intel…and I am in lowsec with no one in my systems or on the travel path! How is that possible???

But I also believe, CCP does need to put some effort to make sure that kind of information can not be used by a 3rd Party app to proactively tell hunters or gankers what is or on a ship fit.

zKill is okay post action. But that can be a bit much in its own right. But its not a major problem to me.

There is enough back and forth information that has me raising eyebrows.

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Unless you can present specific examples of what you’re talking about, this is nothing but hearsay.

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I have never heard of someone using some type of EvE oriented packet sniffing program to look at the details of the ship that others are flying. That is a violation of the EULA for sure and would get you banded. But there are in game ways to learn the details of the ship people are flying. Specialized scanners will tell people in game what a different ship has fitted (within some room for random error).

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There is nothing…absolutely nothing…that would attract more players to the game than for people to stop poisoning the well. Can we please cast all the ‘Eve is dying’, endless whiners about game mechanics, and similar ilk people into the bottomless pit of some wormhole for a year or two and leave them there to wail and gnash teeth.

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What well?

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I have heard of “poisoning the well,” but I have never heard it used like this.

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Yeah none of that is true at all. Now I could probably be looking at your ship at give you a pretty solid guess how it’s fit without scanning it, but not without actually being in system and looking at your ship. What you are hearing is not accurate and I have never heard a streamer or anyone on Reddit say otherwise so I’m not sure where you are getting it.

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@T_Elliot you are correct in this regard the ship scanners do allow one to sus out ones fit, but the ship scanners are very random. Now a cargo scanner barring special boosters and ships [BRs] can tell me a little about what you are carrying, and by virtue if dealing with PVP ships a guess-ti-mate of what your fit is by what is in the cargo hold.

The sniffer packet issue would EULA violation for sure.

@Altara_Zemara I agree about the “poisoning the well” issue. But, it comes from two directions CCP is notorious for slow action on situations in EVE Online, even if it detrimentally harms the PR and market value of the game. The amount of word of mouth slamming of EVE Online has gotten to a point that other streamers actively criticize EVE Online even if they are not playing the game; or they avoid us like the plague because of again EVE fans tend to be viewed as very fanatical. “Bad Boy Image” doesn’t help either. Heck we had three major EVE streamers go to Twitch Con and they got cold-shouldered as no bodies. The whole situation from 2020-2022 [Lets see what Uprising does] and morale is very low among players. And that is the other direction that well poisoning comes from. Well that and all the bodies racked up by the changes will do that too. [Cholerae well poisoning by dead bodies fallen in well.] I have my reservations due to my experiences from 2020 to 2022, but EVE still has untapped potential and still alot of unsolved mysteries.

@Wes_Wyhunnan I was surprised for it even being mentioned to me. But I think its just propaganda tactics to scare non-corp players and solo players. “We have you on intel” And how would they even know I was in a location when there is no other pilots in the system. But considering what meta data is in EVE online, I would hope CCP has made sure of ship hull/fit security access only allowed for post battle reporting.

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98

To be honest a really good example would be the back and forth between Hateless and Wrathful Hawk.

That really poisoned the well for alot of people, and the PR got so bad that CCP probably was forced to change the ganking rules for this upcoming update.

It would have been a spat, and someone being salty about being caught by Wingspan. A little drama and the issue would have faded away.

But someone called someone a Ganker.

Then Wrathful Hawk in trying to “defend the honor” of Wingspan starts to kill non participant ORCA pilots to get back at Hateless. [How do you think that feels to some of the mining people, who were not in on this drama?]
And then Hateless begins to promote people getting their ORCAs reimbursed [Which further spirals out the ganking with Wrathful Hawk against non participant ORCAS]
Finally nearly two months later, CCP announces ganking changes. Because the well poisoning was getting really out of hand.

So you can see where the actions of two players had “poisoned the well” of EVE Online to an extent that it harmed game mechanics and player interactions.

If CCP had stepped in and played mediator telling Hateless he got shot down fair and square. And told Wrathful Hawk he was stepping over a line attacking other people to get back at Hateless over words mind you. They might have cut off all the PR “well poisoning” at the pass before it really escalated.

But the situation didn’t exactly help CCP and EVE look good, and now the ganking changes are making those who have been taking advantage of it very angry and pissed off. Which might cause some later “well poisoning” as gankers become “bitter vets.”

But I thought CCP community managers were supposed to do such things to keep things from escalating.

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The only person who violated the rules in that whole thing was Hateless when he advocated for orcas to get reimbursed for no reason. Why would CCP intervene in what Hawk was doing? He literally told players how to fit so he wouldn’t gank them. He spent billions teaching them.

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100

Surely you’re smart enough to tell the difference between the statements “all PC gamers are hardcore” (what you chose to read) and “The PC gaming market isn’t casual” (what I actually posted)?

But yea, that’s basically what I’m saying. There’s all kinds of players. So when CCP (or any other gaming company) says “we need to change our game to meet the demand of a more casual gaming market” they are gaslighting you to hell and back. What they’re ACTUALLY saying is “we could make the same amount of money with MUCH less effort if we had a casual playerbase so we’re going to focus solely on attracting those players to Eve while we pour all the money Eve paid us into another FPS that will be most certainly DOA”

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Maybe the afk Netflix-and-mine crowd don’t care about profit and will gladly pay $20 a month for an interactive screen saver.

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103

Well, the thing is…some big cheese in Eve can ‘endure’ stuff that the rest of us lesser plebs face every day, and somehow there’s WW3 on Reddit over it all. A massive ego should also go with a massive sense of proportion of things.

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@Altara_Zemara
And yep, that is a good point.

I recently only had a hull reimbursed, and I had to do a very detailed ticket on it. I lost 5B in materials, but I was like oh well. Sadly the ganker never got to loot it because a Jita Loot Bot got it.

I violated one of my longstanding rules. Do not visit Jita 4-4 during Blood Raider Event. But I was impatient to finish up the blood raider event because I had a loss in nullsec.

I jumped into Jita and I have been having some serious input lag on Jita for whatever reason, I jump out to Perimeter I am absolutely golden and anywhere else. Except a Nullsec staging zone if its hot. My input lag was so bad the jump to the station commands were emplacing on other stations and gates. I finally got Jita 4-4 jump to happen. Was on point…blam…killed 10sec inside my local invulnerability timer. The ganker was rather kind and we talked back and forth. He was surprised for another reason because my ship wreck didn’t spawn for 8 secs. By the time it spawned in it had already been looted. [Probably a Jita Loot bot]

EVE is about Endurance…sadly I wish Endurance wasn’t nerfed by nullsec egos.

I have had the server drag me back and get me killed. Another ship hull was reimbursed because of this fact and they were able to prove it happened. Wandered into a gate camp in a Stratios in nullsec, had the local input say I had gotten away, then the server snapped me back and I was killed post haste.

Not getting back what has been dropped is “fair” understood. But the problem with ticks and server input lag and reception isn’t really fun.

And that is what some “plebs” have to deal with. Maybe we should be asked, what keeps us from doing things?

I mean, I am now more aggressive with implants due to the clone changes. Before I used to plan on 24 hour cycle of what I wanted to do in EVE because of what clone I was in. Oh can’t do that today…now I can swap instantly more stuff is avail. And all in one station which is a nice change as well. You used to have to strategically scope out clone bay stations and how many were available to you. And this future clone skill is going to open even more options and fits for me to test and play.

Its something that is a major issue that is starting alot of debates because the old guards don’t like changes that make it easier for new players to side step the gates they gatekeep. And I can understand their points as well.

@Bladewise think about how much negative PR Ganking and Griefing has given EVE a black eye. I understand the merits of some of the arguments. If HS PVP is only way to increase market profitability then I have to ask that the games overall health is in really bad situation. You need movement to various markets, you need movement of goods and resources from various points of space, the problem is so many mechanics allow players to skip risk.

Didn’t CCP also nerf things like anchoring in lowsec faction warfare to increase production like TAMA? Well now that chokes off a way to produce low, sell high.

Now Ganking [red light] will be only Omega, because of the constant abuse and avoidance of bans via alpha. Now that means alot of the alpha using players who were plexing a main or other toons via for profit ganking are going to be hurt. And they are going to have the inconvenience of having to rep sec status and longer range basing.

The Hateless stuff drama was mostly because he was stream sniped. Then him throwing around Wingspan was a Ganker group. But I personally do not think Wrathful Hawks actions were justified. Its within gameplay rules, yes. But it looks childish and petty; and created alot of negative PR drama and salt that has further harmed EVEs image especially during this critical time.

Personally, I want to see the bounty system returned. There needs to be a mechanic that will allow a player to take bounties/killrights from a station [Preferrably a Concord or DED station] And then activate them to attack a player in highsec or lowsec and kill them for a bounty. The system was usable against ganking and allowed some “population control” back in the day. Now if they had made systems like Killrights were you can directly allow a corp/alliance/player to use the bounty/killright. It would have funded a whole new playstyle of Enforcer /Bounty Hunter. Currently there is no way to counter act ganking in highsec other than fitting, which doesn’t deter the more powerful skilled and multiboxing players.

The biggest problem in EVE Online is how players get into ruts and pre-determined thought processes. Which is inexcusable considering how much “forgotten” materials still float around in EVE Online.

Heck, I wish there were navy PVP arena accessible all the time [outside of faction warfare], I hate Abyssal PVP because its so sporadic and it feels like CCP is oh…this ship hull needs pruning from the game. I like dueling, but alot of people don’t try this out. I actually completed one event earlier this year with dueling alone it was actually rather fun.

And the new Paragon materials are going to be soaking up alot of ships from EVE online economy as people want their alliance skins and holograms. So I even question if HS PVP is going to be able to argue that it will make the Market Profitable. When you have ways now to soak up stocks and drive prices up without HS PVP. Heck I would rather see the Isk Wars return because flow of markets was better.

To be honest the ecology of EVE online is out of wack because of how CCP views player mentalities, but also in catering only to PVP, it can further remove targets from PVE and Mining.

This is why alot of EVE players have gone to Albion, and why Albion is now doing things that are very EVE like (besides former CCP employees working there.) And EVE is starting to get competition via market price or mechanics in various games. EVE has crazy prices $22+ for a month…Albion $13+ for a month, a special item, and enough gold to buy whatever I think I want to have.

EVE players asked for name of who built the ship hull, CCP said no…Albion says yes for crafted items. EVE events do allow people to win skins/booster. Albion does a bit more with dailies and monthly/weekly events. + you get other loot and items to sell or use + character and mount skins/variants. And you are skilling up at the same time you do activities, which rewards your playstyle. Does EVE do that…no not really. EVE is a grind, Albion is an achievement and you can switch playstyles anytime you want.

Its something to see how things will change. The hardcore gankers will have tags and other things prepped up for action. If they have Omega status I think they will become more chosey in their attack of targets and fine tune how they do damage and loot. I will continue to play EVE and see how players adapt to the change. Lets see what happens.

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105

IMO how to make money with EVE

FULL freemium

alphas = changed the name to normal account , train 1/2 the speed of current omega
omega = change the name to premium account , need to buy premium time , train 2x the speed of current omega but we will call it 4x, extra jump clones

Battle pass = one every 2 months ,paid better version of login rewards , receive “free” SP ,premium account days , exclusive skins , exclusive clothes , “free” isk , boosters, frigate unobtanium insurance (fat percentage insurance ) , battleship UI (same), capsule UI(same)… etc , need to do meaningless work every day to get the rewards , focused on FOMO

Login rewards = FTP version of battle pass , log in for 7 days in a row for one of the items above, and , or , crates with ■■■■ inside but low chance to a good drop

STORE = exclusive skins and cosmetics , premium time , battle pass , skill extractors, insurance, the PVP l33t pack, the miner prospector pack , the market tycoon pack etc … the difference here is that the skins and clothes are WAY more expensive but also WAY more desirable , this makes battle pass appear a “good deal”and the real spender have the best stuff

MAYBE even some exclusive ships with some negligible change in slots and stats , caracal weeb calamari edition… always in rotation so you cant buy what you want for more FOMO

NO IITEN SOULBOUND , some months ago CCP made a paid COERCER skin and it was half a billion in the market , this is good for the FTP crowd to believe they can have all the game have to offer and for the whales to have access to infinite isk because most of the stuff will continue to be build FTP

PLEX is the premium currency and most of the things in store are for plex but sometimes there is a promotion that can only be build for cash , this is good to re monetize even people that have accumulate a lot of plex and take FTP out of some deals , or to create first time buys plus more FOMO

game continue basically what it is but with more players because of freemium and more options for the whales

not optimal but acceptable … i play some freemium games and “its fine”

you are welcome CPP but i would also humbly accept CCPtutu

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Leadership that has the right priorities would change everything.