I asked him to provide the study that lead to that conclusion.
He hasn’t gotten back to me.
In fact, it looks like he’s turned and ran off with his tail between his legs, again.
But don’t worry, he’ll be back in a few days, yapping and nipping at the heels like an overly excited chihuahua.
This game started as a pvp game as it was advertised to me way back when.
Times certinaly have changed. So have the numbers.
So your point has morphed from
to “I saw an ad that said it was a PvP game 15 years ago”. The point has already been made that some trailer videos mention this, usually older ones. It’s just not what EVE is actually advertised as, according to the label on their own website:
"EVE Online is a community-driven spaceship MMORPG where players can play free, choosing their own path from countless options.
Experience space exploration, immense PvP and PvE battles and a thriving player economy in an ever-expanding sandbox.
Participate in many in-game professions and activities, including war, politics, piracy, trading, and exploration, across 7,000 star systems with hundreds of thousands of other players."
You’ll note that PvP is referred as “immense PvP battles” which certainly sounds more like the region wars that some MMORPGs have, and “piracy” is included in a list down near the bottom.
The point being that your average MMORPG player looking for something new isn’t going to pick up from that description that he can to be ganked anywhere at any time in the game. Nor is that point made clear (or even referred to, really) during the NPE. So it’s not surprising that new players aren’t all that aware of it.
In fact, the biggest loss of “new players” (according to CCP) occurs after they sign up for an EVE account, but before they ever even log in. About 50% of potential players are lost there. Hard to tell why, but I wouldn’t be surprised if those players were using the longish download time to google EVE, and seeing what other players had to say about it. Once they get a clearer picture, they’re gone.
Meh. It’s actually all pretty obvious…and there’s equally any number of noob starter videos on Youtube that explain things well. Most noobs know full well about ganking. What they don’t necessarily know is how to identify a ganker and who to add to red status.
I’m just always confused by the fact that almost everyone seems to agree with two facts:
AND
And then holding both of these facts in their brain, they seem to believe that rather than the game changing and becoming less popular because of changes CCP made to make space less dangerous and less ‘griefy’, that rather it is somehow humanity as a whole that has fundamentally changed in less than a generation to not want the ‘stress’ or have the ‘patience’ for a game like the original Eve.
History is replete with examples of attempts to ‘fix’ a problem simply making the problem worse ( the history of the Aral Sea being a good example ) because the fixers could not grasp that their ‘fix’ WAS the problem.
It’s like doctors who used to apply leeches. The leeches don’t work ? Simple…apply more ! You obviously aren’t applying enough leeches. And of course the patient ultimately dies, but no lesson is learned.
still used to this day fyi. albeit just a few select reasons.
Well, some of the confusion may stem from your being “off” on point 1, and confusing causation and correlation in point 2.
Not really. Lowsec, Nullsec, and (when they added them) FW and WH space have remained about the same. Some people confuse the ability to grief/bait miners in high sec, and wardecs, with “much more heavy PvP”; but those have always been minority sideshows in the overall scheme of the game. EVE ads had a little more PvP flavor at the start (2003-2004 ads), but CCP has never really promoted EVE as a full-PvP/open-world full loot game.
From the earliest economic reports through every data slide CCP has ever shown, EVE has mostly been an economic simulator with a sideline of space combat, a small portion of that PvP. It’s never really been “heavily focused” on PvP, except in the minds of people who thought their wardeccing small corps in high sec was the entirety of the game.
This has little connection to the ups and downs of PvP, especially high-sec PvP. Every 2-decade old game has fewer players. Every game that only had to compete against a few dozen MMOs back then now has to compete with thousands - most of them with better newer engines and flashier combat systems.
Decline over time is normal, and the most significant peaks and drops in population have generally followed changes that harmed the economy and farming, not PvP. In fact, EVE’s best year ever was 2013, right after Crimewatch 2.0 was released and a whole raft of high-sec “PvPers” left the game.
Correlation is not causation, and there have been many more factors over the years than CCP making space “less dangerous” - which is questionable anyway. You can get ganked or wardec’d now anywhere you ever could before, the mechanics are just a little different.
Most people don’t watch those videos. It might be surprising due to personal bias, but the majority of the retail market is composed of people who don’t do much (if any) research when buying something. For every person who goes on tech review websites and reads articles when buying a new laptop, there are going to be like twenty who just walk into a Best Buy and pick out the one that’s visually the most appealing to them within their price range.
I had friends at work whose phones broke or were lost, and we’d walk into the Apple store and they’d be like “I don’t know what I need” and the store associate would run over quickly and say “sir, I have just the phone for you!” and would grab a box and give it over, and the friend would bring it to the register with a smile on their face. Or same thing, but with new running shoes. “Ma’am, I have just the sneakers for you!” and another instant purchase without any consideration given to the gait, cushioning type, heel drop, et cetera that hobbyists are concerned about when they do research before choosing a model. These are the normal people, and we’re the not normal ones for being so invested in something so trivial.
The problem isn’t that the solution is wrong, but that CCP isn’t going far enough with it. They’re not committing to permanently making changes that would drive gains in the casual demographic. This is probably because they are so obsessed with profits that they think they’ll make the most money if they walk a fine line and dip from both wells at the same time. But what this actually does is that it alienates players across both sides of the aisle.
If they committed to changing the game’s core system and removing the non-consensual PvP component, and then marketing it heavily, they’d likely see consistent positive returns, although whether or not that would be a viable long-term strategy remains questionable as players seem to be moving away from live-service games in general.
This is sadly the truth. People don’t want to put in the time -for various reasons (though I think it’s just laziness)- to research the product they are about to purchase. Or worse, fail to read the terms and agreements of any contracts they are signing up for.
Hell, they don’t even look at the breakdown of their utility bills and catch all the bloat fees they slip in knowing that most people won’t even look.
It’s a nasty little game that the banking institutions and merchants play knowing full well that they will use emotional manipulation into making the purchase, and know that the vast majority of consumers aren’t even aware of it.
But, as pro capitalist, I recognize that it is up to the consumer to make sure what they are getting themselves into. They have the final say. So if they fail to educate themselves and ask questions, then they get the consequences of their inaction.
It would be nice if merchants would be a bit more transparent, and less government involvement.
Good post and a good read, Destiny.
It’s when tech (especially) goes wrong or doesn’t perform as expected that you see people such as those you describe become incandescent with fury.
It is also a tendency of some businesses so to describe their products that important information is either withheld completely or disguised by copy-writers, so that the customer cannot possibly make an informed choice (even supposing that they wanted to do so).
Simply, there exist lazy and ignorant people. They are ripe for being exploited. But laziness and ignorance can be overcome with effort and education.
To return to the topic, the OP may dislike gankers, but I have never met (in EVE) a ganker who was either lazy or ignorant. Well, at least, not one who established a sustainable career while exhibiting such tendencies.
You can overcome laziness and ignorance; you can never overcome stupidity. Some folks are just stupid.
It…technically isn’t. Unless you’re a balls-out libertarian and think that governments shouldn’t exist.
This is known as an “externality.” It’s why we have governments that are able to apply regulations to the market. Without this, it would be possible for companies to completely, 100% control the narrative. Because they’re wealthier, and can afford to. It’s the difference between fast food establishments showing the calorie counts for the items on their menus, and kicking you out and trespassing you if you even so much as try asking about it. Like the post below yours says:
Educating yourself can very well become impossible without regulation. But aside from that, considering that not doing much research is a natural tendency for people in general, taking on the stance that “well, it’s their fault for not doing the research and allowing the companies to take advantage of them” can be very damaging to society. It’s not a good idea to allow companies to get away with false advertising just because their customers are unable or unwilling to dedicate considerable portions of their life to researching products. That’s basically victim-blaming.
And false advertising is exactly what’s happening with regard to EVE today.
Then that really is their own problem. Going into anything without having a clue what it is you are going into is not a recipe for a good experience, and its not really something you can blame the product maker for as there is a huge amount of information readily available these days on just about anything.
Performing copious amounts of supplemental research shouldn’t be a requirement to learn the basic features and attributes of a product. That information should be readily available in the primary marketing materials for that product. That’s why food labels have ingredients on them, instead of just the name of the product with the implicit understanding that if you want to learn what’s actually in it, you have to hunt down some third-party review video on YouTube in which someone performs genetic testing on the ingredients to determine what they are.
CCP is not conveying the basic features and attributes of EVE Online in their marketing media. In fact, their marketing is downright deceptive because it very clearly portrays EVE to be a cooperative game instead of a competitive one with optional cooperative elements. There’s no mention, metaphorically-speaking, that Destiny Corrupted is going to appear on one of your high-security space exit gates and blow up your Occator full of your PvE gameplay profits that you spent the last 120 gameplay hours accumulating. The implicit understanding is that Destiny Corrupted should’ve been present during one of the scheduled “king of the hill” events in a contested null-sec system as part of a scheduled PvP battleground engagement for that day, instead of being enabled to legally perform what essentially amounts to a reportable act of grief in 99.9% of all multiplayer video games.
It’s pretty crazy to think that potential players must go through multiple layers of social media commentary on the game to learn that they can in fact be attacked anywhere, at any time, with full-loot permanent losses.
I never said, copious amounts.
Nor did I say, abolish all regulations. It’s important to have some regulations and industry standards. Libertarianism is only one step away from out right piracy.
What I am saying is it’s important to be educated anytime there is a transaction of labor. Knowing what you’re trading for so you’re not taken unaware. The sad reality is that crooks exist. Both in corporations, and in government. And oftentimes they share the same bed.
Yet you delay our appointment with interaction via evemail.
Even if this means that interaction will take place outside Torrions V - Moon 16
Oh, good. You figured out how to use a locator agent.
Once I log in, I’ll send you a mail. But I have license plates to press in the meantime.
Meh…methinks thou dost protest too much. I’ve increasingly come to the view that the #1 thing that puts people off Eve is people complaining all the time about things that supposedly put people off Eve.
That could possibly only apply to the very small fraction of new players who read the forums. The vast majority quit without interacting with anyone outside of an occasional local chat, because the game is boring and is nothing like the non-stop, cinematic excitement portrayed by the trailers.
