100%
Typical Mike, utterly ignoring multiple players with a valid point.
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You’re correct, we wouldn’t need the term ‘suicide’ ganking if ganking was high-sec only and everywhere else it was just PvP. ‘Gank’ is a well-known term, older than EVE and with it’s own history. As gamers use it, it means what the EVE Lexicon you quoted said: an ambush attack with (apparently) zero chance of victory for the target.
The trolls and word-weasels will often tie themselves in self-contradictory knots trying to force the argument onto ground that can make it look like they won.
And yes, IO seems to have fallen in the habit of trying to misinterpret things in some way so he can take umbrage and pull out a “how dare you!” rant. And as you’ve seen he’ll chase you across multiple threads just to assuage his ruffled plumage. He has posted better in the past, but seems to have fallen into a rough patch the past couple years.
Many of the frequent posters, mostly the cantankerous ones, clearly just want someone to engage with them at all. It’s kind of like ganking, really. They just need to see that someone recognized them and felt something from it. Personally I’ve mostly adopted the stance of making my point and moving on, and ignoring all the “please argue with me!” bait.
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I’ve recognized you, so your need should be satiated.
Are you finally going to move on?
Not really. It actually all comes down to arbitrary labels that get mis-used.
Why draw any distinction between the act of killing someone in a 0.4 system and a 0.5 system, when the ONLY actual difference is not the action of the ‘ganker’ but the NPC response ?
The AG crowd rattle on as if ganking was ‘morally’ different…but it isn’t. Show me where that ‘moral’ difference actually is between killing a player in 0.4 and killing them in 0.5. The only actual difference is 0.1 of system status and an NPC response in the latter.
Yet AG pretend that somehow killing in a 0.5 is different ‘in kind’…despite never being able to say what that differential actually is. And that is why ‘ganking’ is little more than a label and not an actual thing. Which makes it even more of a dangerous slippery slope when people talk about removing ‘it’…as any label can simply re re-defined at a whim.
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Who got griefed? Even Icepuppy is still following me around, happy as a dog. You are just a whiteknight wannabe butting into other people’s fun.
Oh wait, I know who got griefed. Rion Bancroft, say his name, a poor little newbro whom even the gankers tossed back, because he was too small. However, jelly bitterbear Githy just couldn’t stand seeing a miner happily mining under the watchful gaze of gankers, so she sent Abudban Plebforce on a hit mission just to grief him out of the game. Sheer hypocrisy from the antiganking community.
So where’s the line for you? When I lived in a WH I lost a tengu to multiple TC3s that I did not know were there. I had no chance of winning that fight. Was I ganked? Does that fact that I was in the process of killing an Astero from their corp change that equation? How about the dread kills in null sec where Cable Ulta was just engaging in some honorobu PVE (or RMT Sotiyo kills but whatever) and we dropped 70 bombers on his polarized dreads. Were his poor caps ganked?
This wierd debate about the definition of ganking… When I was a teen I used to ‘gank’ lipgloss and nail polish at the mall. It’s patently obvious that gank has different meanings in various contexts, but in EvE Online it refers specifically to ‘suicide’ ganking. Since the gankers don’t actually die, or commit suicide, it’s not really suicide ganking - it’s merely ganking. Can ganking happen outside of Highsec? No, of course not. You can call that blobbing or blapping or whatever you desire, but if you call it ganking, you sound like a pleb.
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Citation to the study conducted that lead to this conclusion is required.
I’d love to read it for myself.
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If ganking keeps most people in Highsec, then if you end ganking, everyone will leave Highsec and it will be an empty void.
I hope the two big nullsec coalitions gank each other in a big elongated gank over the course of a gank campaign to shake up the sov map, and maybe it will be called World Gank Bee 3 or something.
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There’s no difference, which is why both should be equally impossible.
Really the only difference between 0.4 and 0.5 systems is one of them has the equivalent of a mall detective that follows around anyone that is slightly suspicious.
Seems to me at least it’s far easier to cry about pvp than learn it. All the ads I see say it’s a pvp game. I guess CCP got it wrong in it’s advertising.
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Actually all the ads, plus the EVE main website, say it’s a space MMO or MMORPG. Then it lists a bunch of things you can do in it, one of which is PvP. Except for the odd trailer here and there, from what I can tell the PvP aspect is rarely emphasized at all.
Maybe some folks don’t play other MMOs so they don’t understand that by far the majority of all MMORPGs feature mostly PvE play with some sort of PvP jimmied in somewhere around the edges. It’s not a stretch to figure that most new players are going to assume something similar. Especially since the startup process pretty ignores PvP as a concept.
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This is objectively false. In fact, CCP hasn’t explicitly mentioned the game’s PvP component (outside of vague references to things like “alliance wars”) in any EVE trailers since the “play for free” trailer about seven years ago. By that time, they were already hardly mentioning EVE’s PvP heritage compared to how they were flaunting it during the first ten years. The last great PvP-centric trailer was the one for Retribution, in my opinion.
None of the four current trailers on Steam mention any sort PvP concepts aside from “fleeting up with thousands of fellow pilots battling over disputed territory” in the “gameplay video” trailer at about 3:20. And even that part is ambiguous with regard to whether you’re fighting other players or NPCs.
Likewise, the store copy doesn’t mention anything about PvP except for the tidbit about the game setting a record:
I tried putting myself into the mindset of someone who hasn’t played EVE before, and read through the store page and watched the videos (and a few other recent trailers on YouTube). My perception was that all of the fighting that the game advertised was cooperative in nature, and that there was some kind of optional “king of the hill” style territory war mode for which players could group up, like Wintergrasp in WoW WoTLK.
Nearly nothing in the game’s advertising materials over the past decade conveys any sign of open-world, full-loot survival PvP gameplay. And the perceptions of the new players writing forum posts and leaving reviews heavily reflect that observation.
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That’s actually really interesting and I guess something I never considered. I think the videos I watched before playing the game were mostly player-made and therefore PvP focused, but I hadn’t really considered the approach that CCP videos were taking.
Last one I can remember is the citadel trailer where they destroy it with the line “wreck their dreams”. It’s been a lot of soy boy beta C stuff as of late.
No, PvP is player vs. player.
NPC’s are not player controlled. I know, you’re gonna say that a lving person programmed the AI and that would make NPC’s, player controlled. But since the AI program is operates itself without constant human controll, then NPC’s are not PvP.
(2009) (literally has an authentic Russian saying “burn them all”)
(2010)
(2010)
(2011)
(2012)
(2016)
And now go watch any trailer made after EVE went F2P in 2016. All of them are either NPC story stuff, deal almost entirely with PvE and portray the game as a largely cooperative affair, or are very artsy and abstract to make the game feel like a sophisticated adult’s choice of entertainment (to be fair the last one continues the same tradition since the game’s early days when many of the trailers were like that). Not a single reference to player combat aside from an occasional, vague “somewhere a big alliance fleet battle can be happening.”
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You keep doing this…speaking for some mysterious ‘they’ that you’ve conjured up out of nowhere. No survey or study is ever cited for ‘they’. And having not even established via verifiable data that ‘they’ even exist…you then have the sheer gall to claim that you know exactly how ‘they’ feel about this or that. Quite a remarkable psychic achievement !
Seriously, this is Don Quixotic windmill chasing of the first order, and should be called out as such.
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