Sadly AG is a victim of numerous nerfs that destroyed its group play, and fun. We started to destroy wrecks with Destroyers, gankers complained to CCP and got teh wreck EHP changed so we had to use Tornado’s to blow it up quickly enough so they could not scoop, end of fun… It is when you realise that CCP are protecting the gankers that you begin to think hold on a second…
Then after that we had tethering which removed a whole area of hunting for AG players, previously we were nabbing people with killrights on safes near gates, setting up to take people on their instra undocks. All gone as possibilities…
CCP decided to make RR a criminal act if you have a limited engagement, and all combat even against a -10 criminal creates a limited engagement, previously we could use co-ordinated fleets that would rep the DPS against retaliatory gank action, but now we could not, at that point co-ordinated fleets just disappeared.
And of course we should not forget that we have things like loot scooping through a noob ship and DST to avoid consequences.
Gankers complain and whine about nerfs, but AG were nerfed out of existence by CCP sadly, only the really committed like Githany and Thotamon are really left.
You can do it, I would advise speaking to Githany for the offensive type actions, Thotamon has really got repping down to an art. When I was moving stuff through Uedama I was using a Celestis to neutralise the initial tackle ship lock range so they lost point if they were -10. There are things you can do but you have to adjust as they can counter.
I also like nabbing them every so often on gates with fast lockers, something that Githany and her corp mates do a lot, that is funny, but you have to be aware of their numerous scouts. Kill rights are great fun, but always make sure you have a tackle ship on the other side of the gate.
The change to RR really destroyed those large integrated AG fleets that used to happen, they were great fun.
Maybe we do not care about KM’s or i know i don’t and the amount of loot i got from Uedama is probably 50m if that, and with logi i do not have time to loot nor care for in most cases i need to get more boosters/repair heat damage.
If you are logi player then you don’t even attack them, so why did it offend you? Or you do attack them anyway with drones? That is kinda kill mail whoring no matter if it is against gankers or elsewhere, but whatever. This was never targetted against you. This was targeted against these so called anti-gankers who sits days and hours at jita undock tagging tornado and thrasher gankers after they shoot and kill their target (or fail to kill their target but not thanks to their doing).
they cannot prevent the gank this way at all so they cannot save the victim
they won’t loot as either because they often sits in middle of station to prevent themselves of being bumped and potentially ganked
and this never really caused any of the gankers to give up or quit anyway
So what is the point? The only point is to get that juicy killmail and pad their killboard green with even more pathetic kills than gankers have
I think this ganker is rather confused, he does not even know that if you attack the gankers with your drones it will stop you from repping the victim.
It is easy enough to understand, if you have your safety red, if the person you were repping shot at someone you would be concorded as you are repping someone with a limited engagement and you are not in their alliance or corp, so it makes sense to put your safety on green. But when you engage a ganker with combat drones you create your own limited engagement which would turn off your reppers as safety is now green. It is not difficult to understand, in hisec you put repping drones in and that is it.
I have not said anything incorrect, because I have repped people and I have also had the experience of applying combat drones on a ganker as I was repping and had a doh moment, thankfully at the time I had two characters repping so the victim did not die, but I slapped myself mentally a bit for being dumb… Thankfully I had the green safety active, so no issue.
And also I have been on the Sivala gate with Thotoman several times in the past, I know his fits and how he does it. But don’t let that get in the way of your incorrect except…
NB. It appears I am wrong, as I was repping a Marauder at the time and he survived he must have opened fire or used his Bastion. I thought it happened when my drones were engaged.
I do understand it, I just didn’t know the exact mechanics.
But that still means you’re wrong, you could do it if you weren’t so afraid of getting concorded.
I explained it, but you declared that I was wrong with your except, you obviously do not understand it when you made it clear you thought I was wrong. And to still call me wrong is showing your ignorance.
Your point on repping with safety red makes no sense, before they made it a criminal act I went suspect several times, I even got shot by so called fellow AG players. Thotoman has gone criminal at least once, you are asking people to lose a ship in an effort to save a ship when this will just drain their resources, it is gross stupidity, it is not as if there is an income stream from AG. There is nothing wrong in wanting CCP to get their mechanics right in terms of being able to assist people being shot by criminals even if they shoot the criminals back.
The issue is poor mechanics and a lack of understanding by the game developers. Remote Repping should NEVER have been made a criminal offence, it was fine going suspect…
Well, imho RemoteAssistance of any kind should simply inherit any status the assisted currently has (or for better understanding: you are treated as if you had done what he has done to get his timers). If you assist a suspect, you go suspect. If you assist a criminal, you go criminal. If you assist someone in a limited engagement, you get this limited engagment as well. If you assist someone with a weapons timer, you inherit his weapon timer (so you just don’t jump/dock up if you assist someone and their enemies switch to you).
Whats with wars? You mean neutral repping? I’ts covered:
You RemoteAssist X who has an engagement with Y, while there is an active CONCORD sanctioned war between X and Y you will be treated as if you had engaged Y yourself. The war declaraton covers X’s aggression, but not yours since you are not in X’s corp/alliance. So no neutral repping, you would be killed by CONCORD.
Different case if you RemoteAssist someone who has aggressed a criminal: Since criminals can be shot by anyone you would have been free to aggress the criminal anyway, so you simply get the same limited engagement with him as the one you are assisting.
If you assist someone who has stolen or shot an MTU, same procedure. You’ll get suspect status as if you had stolen or shot the MTU yourself.
Its really simple, all the game needs to check if is what status you would have gotten if you would have aggressed whoever your assistance-target has an engagement with. And then decide if you get a limited engagement, suspect or criminal timer.
And I’m glad you invited me too…as I can daily see what appalling fits people undock with. That 4K EHP Tayra carrying 4bn ISK worth of stuff and ganked by just 4 gankers still leaves me mystified. And that is merely one of the worst examples that include Mackinaws, Retrievers, etc, with zero added tank. Gone is any illusion of AG being white knights saving the helpless…as 99% of the victims can’t be bothered helping themselves.
I thought you had but I wanted it clearly stated, because I wanted allies to be able rep the people they are allied too, I can’t work out why CCP can’t do this.
Thanks for doing that it was not a trick question or anything like that, I want it laid out in clear terms which you did.
Ganking, itself, isn’t any easier. I bottled out of my first solo gank attempt a few days back…despite setting up a bookmark that the miner returned to. But I’m gonna have another go today.
That won"t fix the issue for which they changed it in first place. While you covered neutral repping in war, you didn’t cover neutral repping a limited engagement.
Maybe you remember these suspect baiters at Jita at that time. They undocked 4 repping battleships multibox alts when aggressed. Suspect flag never mattered to them as is was pretty much impossible to kill them - correct me if I am wrong but there isn’t weapon timer preventing to dock if you remote repair someone. And with your suggestiion it only gets better if the suspect flag runs out (ie. the baiter lets himself aggressed and shot at, and only starts attacking after suspect flag runs out. and then he can freely undocks those remote rep battleships and make it 5vX not 1vX).
Duels will be less healthy too with this as there is no punishment for stepping into it with your multibox alt or friend and remote rep yourself. (And while it can be done already it seems that losing the logi ship is enough deterrent.)
I might not remember everything, on the paper giving neutral reppers suspect flag as it used to be when they rep suspect, limited engagement or wardec sounds like no problem as you can shoot them then, but I remember that I ran into one guy doing this in wardec and those 2 neutral exeqs totally fuked me up and I saw no counterplay to that at that time.
