I’m going to (attempt to) keep tracking of proposed solutions, as this thread is getting a tad ‘long in the tooth’… Apologies in-advance if I mis-credit anyone. I’m just including the most recent ones - but if you want to post the sub-link within this thread I’ll revise below (thanks).
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???
Maybe you can summarize for me? @Kezrai_Charzai
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Starbase Charters to operate structures (HS/LS) @Max_Deveron
Starbase charters are once again required as fuel to operate structures (HS/LS).
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Empire Standings to anchor/maintain structures (HS/LS) @Max_Deveron@Arthur_Aihaken
Corporations need a certain Empire standing in order to both deploy and maintain structures (10x the security status, ie: 0.9 = 9.0 standing). If the corporate Empire standing should fall below the level required for any structure(s), structures in those specific regions immediately drop into “Low Power” state.
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Increase the Cost of wardecs @Arthur_Aihaken
Increase the cost of wardecs from the current 100m to between 500m and 1b ISK.
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Having watched the Twitch Developer’s Stream, I now understand the game’s current state. If those guys are making the decisions we’re in for a bumpy ride.
Good idea, but I think it might be help to (briefly) identify what problem the “solution” is actually solving. (Using W-E to mean "War Eligible here.) For instance:
Hatch Nasty: address war cost between groups of different sizes, to reduce the “big vs small” effect:
Arthur Aihaken: reduce limitations, increase incentives to be W-E and penalties to be immune
Max Deveron: limit structures to corps that do lots of PvE locally, require Charters and Standings
Gloria Exercitus and others: increase station defenses
Stefnia Freir: allow non-W-E corps the option of a single limited structure to provide for growth:
Kezrai Charzai: address the full range of issues identified by CCP in CSM 13. As well as those identified by players over past decade. Corp size differential, incentives to be W-E, disincentives to be immune, war farming, defender participation, all covered. Complex to understand the ‘behind the scene’ details, much more simple in actual practice.
Syzygium: limit war farming by large war cost increases. Limit number of wars possible:
Arthur Aihaken: expanding on the structure bonuses and empire standings concept:
Gloria Exercitus: sliding scale of factors to determine W-E. 15-minute suspect flag for deccers.
Gloria Exercitus: Grace period free from W-E for small corps when place structure:
Arthur Aihaken: Grace period plus war costs increase, discounted per multiple structures:
Syzygium: Standings and charters again, and also member shuffling/alt corp/access lists:
For completeness, I’ll include an early poster that seemed a bit ranty to me. Perhaps it will make more sense to you.
Distaine: you’ll have to figure out what issues it addresses by yourself:
That’s all the meaningful proposals I could find. If proposing something new/different, it helps if you identify what problem with wardecs you’re trying to solve, some support for why it is a problem, and then what your solution does to address it.
Despite some of the animosity and sniping, it’s been a good discussion so far. My thanks to the OP for keeping up with it and everyone who’s contributing to the debate!
Hello, new guy created yesterday. If you’re making that statement legitimately instead of as sarcasm or some other reason, that’s an incorrect assumption. There are many things in the game that aren’t working properly - CCP just has a lot of trouble identifying, understanding or even admitting to some of them.
And even for the things they know are a problem, there’s only so much they can work on at one time.
Wardecs were a problem for almost a decade, frequently pointed out by players, before CCP ever showed the stats to CSM that revealed just how much harm they were doing to the game. It’s quite possible CCP would never have admitted even that, if they hadn’t spent a brief period in 2018-2019 focusing on player retention. (Most likely driven by the recent sale of the company to Pearl Abyss.)
Once CCP realised just how much damage wardecs were doing, they quickly slapped a patch on it to stop the bleeding. As patches go, it was one of CCP’s better attempts, in my opinion (they’ve done some pretty ham-fisted ‘fixes’ in the past).
They gave players the option of being wardec free in ‘social’ corps, and pushed the entry-point for wars to “owning a structure”. Which meant any corp had to reach at least a certain level of competence in the game before they were drawn into wars. It’s not the best of solutions but it’s not the worst either, and I think they probably limited the damage that wardecs do by a fair bit.
What it didn’t do was actually address any of the significant issues that CCP identified with wardecs: extreme skewing in aggressor favor, lack of actual activity during wars, no reason for defenders to participate after a war was declared on them, etc.
As I understand it, that was the purpose of this thread. To see if those design problems with wardecs were ‘inherent’, and could never be removed; or if there were designs/solutions that could actually resolve those issues.
At any rate, good luck with your new character! Perhaps sometime in the future you’ll be in a war and can decide for yourself whether they’re working ‘as intended’ or not.
Ah, the great 60K myth. Anyone would think there was some extended halcyon days where numbers were over 60K. There wasn’t. Other than two very brief peaks where 60K was exceeded, the average between 2009 and 2014 was below 50K, and I note that no-one ever mentions the dips in that same period where it fell as low as 42K.
I mean, there really hasn’t been a drop as big as between January 2011 and November 2011…same time period as the mythical 60K…where numbers fell by 20K ! And yet this is the alleged halcyon days.
Also people rarely mention that the general trend since mid 2022 has been upwards.
All valid points. And let’s not forget that EVE was on the verge of going off a cliff in 2016 before the introduction of Alphas (which love or hate, probably saved the game).
The only thing that I would mention in passing is that we have far more multiboxers today than single players back when we were averaging 40-50k.
It would be interesting to have a crystal ball to gleam something out of the 20.3 million EVE accounts:
• How many players have logged in within the past month/year? (ie: how many are still semi-active)
• How many single players vs. multiboxers?
• How many Alpha vs. Omega accounts?
If I recall correctly, there’s Fanfest data from some year ( I think 2018, though may be more recent ) showing that the average player has 2.4 accounts and 4.6 chars. I recall arguing on an earlier thread that this didn’t leave much scope for vast numbers of players multiboxing.
Agreed. “Averages” are all fine and well, but how many “active” players do we have? (those that login at least once a day, etc.)
Say the peak of active players is roughly 30k (average) at any given time. Are we talking about 300k players for 2 hours each each, 600k players for an hour each, etc. And how many of these are Alphas, Omegas and single vs. multiboxed accounts? How many are multiple characters on the same account?
