Change is coming

(Rivr Luzade) #508

Because that attitude is suffocating good content from taking place. Good content suffocates under the necessity to bring ever more numbers and ever more supers and titans. If people really wanted to fight, they would not join a group that has over 34000 characters and is more than twice as big as the next biggest alliance and who is allied with 3 out of the other 9 alliances in the top 10 by numbers; they would join the fight against that group and farm them instead.

The coming half-measure changes will not help those corps at all if they use a structure in their corp or an alt corp. Why shouldn’t war dec corps not “decide” how you use EVE? In null sec and low sec, the bigger, better prepared sharks decide how you use EVE with far more serious threats to your usage experience. What’s the problem with that taking place in high sec? I have been subjected to this a couple of times and found solutions. I have seen other corps around me being subjected to this and find solutions to this as well. The problem are people and corps who do not want to find solutions for a problem.

What do you really expect? They started EVE and without any preparation and knowledge or guidance, they immediately want to enter the endgame in a hobby that centers all activities around destroying things and ruining someone else’s day. If you voluntarily jump into that shark tank although you don’t know a thing about it, you deserve to get crushed. The stepping stones are already there, as described multiple times (EUni, cooperation from within NPC corps, alts, learn EVE as part of a bigger group, look for guidance and assistance that’s available plentifully, etc.)

Furthermore, people should also learn to deal with failure. It will befall you many, many times in EVE because EVE is, as said, centered around destruction of your things. That is the whole point of EVE and it is being employed to ridiculous extend outside of high sec. In high sec you at least have the opportunities to avoid most of that, namely wars, by not immediately forming a user-created corporation and instead use all the other means of cooperation that are available to you.

(Mevatla Vekraspek) #509

I’ve nothing against balance if it helps player retention. But i don’t think it’ll have the researched effect.

(Predvodnica LSG) #510

We do not agree in all but here you are right.
Like in RL economy in the company competition they tend to swallow or destroy smaller companies. At the end remain several mega companies and the market ( gameplay ) becomes saturated predictably and dull.
In IRL it is death for progress and normal life, and smart people have seen it and made the following …
USA bring anti trust acts, Roosvelt filed lawsuits to dissolve more than 40 monopolies during his presidency, no company by law can not take more than XY % of market it operate in.

CCP must do the same, must disolve too big companies and put limits on company size ( number of players and owned systems ) if it want to keep gameplay interested and funny.

(Lugburz) #511

noooo they just need to make it so it less desirable to play 50 odd jumps away from where you live; they could do this by simply changing a few things but im kind of tired with even mentioning that tbh.

(Madlightning) #512

i still remember when a Taught a bunch of brand people how to kill a 1.8 bill isk tengu. they got perma hyped for future wars and shi for a bunch of new people living in high sec at the time that is a good healthy way of thinking

that was over a year ago people right now in high sec (who know) make alt characters with corps and the Corp hop anytime they get war decked and they got like 15-30 people in their corp (ACTIVE) lol what kinda of bullcrap
is that that is not healthy for eve at all

(Mevatla Vekraspek) #513

Oh crap, you want to create more conflict? are you ok? i’m worried…

(Lugburz) #514

more conflict is exactly whats needed but in a form that amicable for both parties.

Right now what we end up with is a buff to a ship class, then a nerf to one ship because its used a lot; then people switch the ship they use or are left with a meta that is borked (af buff, retri nerf, ramming jags)
then a whole nerf to another ship class when a simple tweak was needed (combat ceptors)

And a change to a ship class that relegates half its ships to hangars and only improves it to stupid levels for when fielded enmasse (ecm)

(Mevatla Vekraspek) #515

I know that we need more conflict, but coming from him that was surprising.

(Rivr Luzade) #516

That’s what people need to do, yes. I think I linked it above or in another topic, but there recently was a RIOT muppet who lost his 1.2B PVE Phobos to a measly NPC corp Gila. It’s ridiculous. War decers can be farmed or intimidated just fine if you just put a bit of effort into it. That doesn’t work fight away or with only 1 two-weeks old char, but ideally you form your corp with more people than just yourself.

Another thing: What about turning the cost structure for declaring a war around: Instead of making it prohibitively expensive to declare war against huge groups, it should be the cheapest option. Declaring war against some random 1 man corp should be the most expensive. For instance:

  • Declaring war against CONDI, Fly Fearless or HORDE (all groups with more than 2500 characters) should only cost 50 Million ISK. Plenty of farming will be had.
  • Declaring war against a random 10 man mining corp or industrial corp should cost 400M ISK. Still leaves room to profit from killing a structure or destroying their mining fleet, but random wars just for lols are being limited, and the war dec group has to research the target (there are some suggestions around on how to improve that aspect). Declaring war against a 1-man corp that holds a market structure around Jita isn’t really an issue either because the structure kill and loot/salvage from it pays for the thing. And if everyone moves into 1-man corps, that’s fine with me as well. We need huge ISK sinks to combat the massive faucets.
    This way, you have solved a lot of issues as wars right now protect huge groups and punish small groups. It ought to be the other way around.

(Lugburz) #517

in regards to wardecks i feel only two things are needed tbvh, a probationary period for newer players to get some skills behind them (this could be dealt with in npc corps tbh but some form of social corps with an ability to pay monthly protection fee to bribe concord might also work - ive not worked out the math)
and a way that a wardecked corp could end the war quickly and relatively easily - but they would have to undock to do it, and so would wardeckers.
The fozzie sov system would likely make a good candidate.
Structure bashing does not.

(Lugburz) #518

but you dont need to dec them to shoot them?

thats not a lot tbvh but i can see where your line of thinking is. It lies somewhere in that mathematical equation i believe.

I mean real lif isnt fair CCP we all know this, but in real life people go to jail for a very long time (or die) and therefore dont have a lasting effect on the economy. In political circles embargoes are placed and despots are often displaced among other things - there are no such mechanics for that in eve really and so… it needs to be balanced.

I mean its nice to have a game with no rules but when everyone is playing as ‘fansy’ it doesnt make for a very good game…

(Madlightning) #519

it takes a bit of manipulating but yes, getting people to try something that is outside of their comfort zone takes alittle bit of time getting a Miner to take up PVP once and a while is hard but once to do that and show that Mining isn’t everything maybe they might wanna join a low sec corp it has happend, getting them to join a low sec is hard i have only gotten people in to TNT, Test, Horde, goons, my next goal is snuffed out (not just miners like anyone in high sec) of course i can’t do that directly as this time but showing people other walks of life is part of the solution. the War just get in the way,

killing someone fitting a ship like this then having no one tell them hey “lets work on this fit”
gotta start somewhere getting people more attractive to PVP groups is a start.

(Mevatla Vekraspek) #520

4B a week to wardec 10 small corps starts to hurt a little. and 400Mil that wont prevent the small indus corp who want to harass the competition

(Lugburz) #521

ah yeh i forget, tbh when i was doing wardecks there was no real need to have so many at once, one or two was often fine.

(Madlightning) #522

yeah having 100+ active war decs is a mess

(Lugburz) #523

basically why i hate living in sov space, miner cries for help as hes dumb enough to get tackled, you go to help, the miner manages to escape, says ‘‘k thx bye’’ and leaves you to it.

(Rivr Luzade) #524

Look at the wars of PIRAT against CONDI and Co. There are lots of thing to be farmed in high sec, and I keep seeing assets of them flying around completely unimpeded.

Yes, the equation at the moment is the exact opposite: You get subsidized to farm small corps (regardless if they are up-and-coming new corps or just alt corps of big null blocks) and punished if you want to farm the real deal. The best organized user-groups get a Go To Start and Grab 200 Bucks card, while the smaller, potentially not so well organized groups get the You Go To Jail card with that cost structure. And the coming change to wars won’t help there at all.

(Lugburz) #525

basically yes and the larger groups keep growing which brings targets and content down because the blob just gets stronger and and and; i just dont know atm, mostly im just farming missions in nullsec just incase the game doesnt get completely broken by the end of december…

Bring back needing standings to anchor stuff in hs i say.

(Madlightning) #526

i agree i see that. all the time in sov space way too often people don’t even fight back sometimes. back befor i joined back with the imperium some guy had a blinged out 250k ehp skiff die to like 5-6 frigates and complain and cry for 20 mins as he died

over in ismother

(Lugburz) #527

yeh my most recent incident was when i was with init, warped in to help save miner group; they manage to get out then just sit on a citadel as i die to more incommings; they could have reshipped and beaten the gang easily - they didnt, not their problem, their shits safe and after im dead and the gangs gone they go back to making themselves money - no one replaces my ■■■■… pretty soon you just start telling people ‘‘oh your tackled? rip’’