Delay Local

[Salvos_Rhoska]

@Teckos_Pech

Tell us again how you don’t give it the time of day.

Ill tell you again where you can shove your sarcasm.

@Teckos_Pech

I’ve already pointed out I think the OA should be like other structures where they have fitting options so players face trade offs in terms of the intelligence they want.

Sure, as long as those do not include an option to redact delay/removal of Local intel.

[Loki_Orkund]

@Salvos_Rhoska

I would like that too, but this guy wont stop trying to hump my leg wherever I post.

Lost count of how many times Ive had to try to return to topic past various forms of trolling.

Agree he’s very persistent and even puts on a great show of being reasonable at times but it takes two to do it.

Just draw a line and start ignoring him.

[Teckos_Pech]

@Salvos_Rhoska

Ill tell you again where you can shove your sarcasm.

I’m curious…can you not respond to this part of my post?

@Salvos_Rhoska

Sure, as long as those do not include an option to redact delay/removal of Local intel.

I’m fine with players expanding resources and effort to recoup intelligence that is lost by the removal/delay of local and that some of the more interesting aspects of the new mechanics come with trade offs–i.e. costs that are not related to effort/resources, but forgone information. For example, if you want the “mesh network” which works at say the constellation level you have to give up other types of information. If you want to be able to find a cloaked ship then you have to give up some other facet of information.

[Dom_Arkaral]

@Loki_Orkund

Just draw a line and start ignoring him.

he just can’t

because he knows I’m always right

@Teckos_Pech

I’ve already pointed out I think the OA should be like other structures where they have fitting options so players face trade offs in terms of the intelligence they want.

This is a very reasonable suggestion.
If local gets delayed or whatever, have an OA in system totake away the delay for all parties.

or probs better, have it be a fort/azbel service so that only people owning those benefit from it (in system only)

[Teckos_Pech]

@Dom_Arkaral

or probs better, have it be a fort/azbel service so that only people owning those benefit from it (in system only)

I prefer a stand alone structure that can be attacked and possible taken offline/destroyed if players just want to turtle up. I’m not saying “No,” to turtling up, just that now it will come with a cost…you’ll be blind. No more intel…at all…until you go out there and entosis it/set up a new one/etc.

[Teckos_Pech]

Oh, and if the OA gives some intel to both sides…then leaving some systems “dark” might be a strategic option for the sov holders…

I’d like to create an environment where emergent behavior can emerge.

@Loki_Orkund

Agree he’s very persistent and even puts on a great show of being reasonable at times but it takes two to do it.

This is hilarious coming from the ding-dong who won’t even discuss modules he proposes. You nearly broke my irony meter.

[Ag3nt_Jita]

Make the observatory array find bots instead of cloaked ships and put them into every nullsec system, then watch the largest alliances burn

[Loki_Orkund]

@Teckos_Pech

This is hilarious coming from the ding-dong who won’t even discuss modules he proposes. You nearly broke my irony meter.

See, he trolls me too. Couldn’t be a more obvious troll.

[Teckos_Pech]

@Loki_Orkund

See, he trolls me too. Couldn’t be a more obvious troll.

See, you can’t engage on the topic; not even when it is your own topic. I’d call you the troll, but I don’t think you realize what you are doing.

[Salvos_Rhoska]

@Teckos_Pech

I’m fine with players expanding resources and effort to recoup intelligence that is lost by the removal/delay of local and that some of the more interesting aspects of the new mechanics come with trade offs–i.e. costs that are not related to effort/resources, but forgone information

I’m not fine with OAs negating delayed/removed Local intel.

I am however fine with OAs providing services that are not directly related to delayed/removed Local.

One example of why, is that such an OA in WH space, if it can provide Local intel, will basically negate lack of Local intel in WHs.

Another is that if Local intel is delayed/removed from Player NS, then an OA that returns Local intel makes the removal/delay redundant in the first place.

Furthermore, if that OA provides Local intel selectively only to defenders, it makes the aggressors job even more unfair that it currently is.

@Teckos_Pech

For example, if you want the “mesh network” which works at say the constellation level

Ive seen no mention of CCP planning such a function for OAs
As far as I can tell, this is entirely from your own head.
CCP already removed constellation/region chat.
That’s a strong indicator they don’t want that in-game.

---

I think OA effects should be system specific.
Probably should be a limit of one per system as well, to prevent stacking them up.
Probably also so, that only one OA effect can be in use at once, per system.
They should be obvious to find, and easy to destroy.
If they are hard to find/destroy, that just makes aggressors job even harder than now.

@Teckos_Pech

I prefer a stand alone structure that can be attacked and possible taken offline/destroyed

I agree OAs should be a standalone Upwell structure.

Mobile units, aside from the Depot and Tractor, have an abysmal track record in EVE.

@Teckos_Pech

Oh, and if the OA gives some intel to both sides

This is counter-productive.
Why would anyone want to run, for example, a d-scan scrambler effect, when it blinds their own guys as much as enemies, or a de-cloaker, that decloaks your own ships too.

---

Aggression is what drives PvP in EVE.
The less enabled aggressors are, the less PvP there is.
Never forget that.

[Dom_Arkaral]

@Salvos_Rhoska

If they are hard to find/destroy, that just makes aggressors job even harder than now.

If people don’t know how to use dscan and probe, why should the defender be disadvantaged in favour of a dumb attacker?

@Salvos_Rhoska

Mobile units, aside from the Depot and Tractor, have an abysmal track record in EVE.

They do if you don’t play the game, they don’t if you do.
Besides each are used for very specific tasks

@Salvos_Rhoska

Aggression is what drives PvP in EVE.

The less enabled aggressors are, the less PvP there is.

Never forget that.

That’s just hilarious coming from a guy that wants to remove bumping

Edited format

[March_rabbit]

@Teckos_Pech

Oh, and if the OA gives some intel to both sides…then leaving some systems “dark” might be a strategic option for the sov holders…

I would totally not support such implementation: if sov owner needs to buy/build and put OA and then pay for it/fuel it then why every visitor should be able to use it for free?

• it does not make sense applying RL logic: when military set communication network they protect it so others cannot access it. GPS might be the only exception i’m aware of but even then initially it provided different precision levels “for us” and “for them”.
• it does not make sense game wise when one pays and others use it for free (usually owner can choose if he wants to share its property or not).

[Salvos_Rhoska]

@Dom_Arkaral

They do if you don’t play the game, they don’t if you do.

[Loki_Orkund]

@Dom_Arkaral

@Salvos_Rhoska

If they are hard to find/destroy, that just makes aggressors job even harder than now.

If people don’t know how to use dscan and probe, why should the defender be disadvantaged in favour of a dumb attacker?

Not in favour of enabling dumb attackers personally, but making it easier for good ones. So in my quick remake, I removed local but mostly-buffed D scan/Overview and nerfed cloaks & cynos.

Delay Local

An auto-refresh D-scan would mandate the elimination of Local. It’s definitely worth considering, not least for the simplification of the UI. Normal D scan use would be incorporated into the Overview. I’d suggest targets beyond 4000km not be identifiable ie would show Ship 11.9 au. Nor could you warp to them. There’s a case for simultaneously nerfing the actual D scan so that identifying distant ships is harder. Big ships would be more easily identified. Directionality would be required t…

Now how is an attacker supposed to find and disable an OA without being detected by the very same OA?

[Salvos_Rhoska]

@March_rabbit

GPS might be the only exception i’m aware of but even then initially it provided different precision levels “for us” and “for them”.

GPS is almost entirely a US Gov/Air Force endevour.
They currently allow use of their satellite network, but they can restrict it to exclusively their own use at any moment. (With devastating consequences)

There are privately owned satellites, and some nations have a few of their own, but nowhere near the coverage provided by US GPS. Any other nation’s attempt to run a GPS network on their own would be very blotchy and periodic, owing to needing at least 3 satellites operating/passing over that area at a time for accurate positioning.

---

@March_rabbit

it does not make sense game wise when one pays and others use it for free (usually owner can choose if he wants to share its property or not).

I agree entirely that it does not make sense that an OA bought/placed/fueled by someone would provide services for someone the owner does not want having access to them.

[Dom_Arkaral]

@Salvos_Rhoska

they can restrict it to exclusively their own use at any moment. (With devastating consequences)

Nah
Because people can still use those things called maps…

[Salvos_Rhoska]

GPS is crucial in many modern systems.
From aviation, maritime, to land transit, to military equipment, to sending/receiving updates to relays/systems in remote locations by satellite uplink, etc.

You’d be surprised how much depends on GPS if you actually bothered to look into it and understand.

Maps don’t cut it, not by far.

Its not just hikers or geo-cachers that use GPS, as an idiot might assume.

---

Ontopic, before this interruption:

I agree entirely that it does not make sense that an OA bought/placed/fueled by someone would provide services for someone the owner does not want having access to them.

[Dom_Arkaral]

@Salvos_Rhoska

as an idiot might assume.

And here you are, assuming I’m an idiot…
Pot meet kettle

@Salvos_Rhoska

I agree entirely that it does not make sense that an OA bought/placed/fueled by someone would provide services for someone the owner does not want having access to them.

That’s exactly like saying I don’t agree with citadel owners that don’t let me dock and Reprocess all my ores for free

Or I don’t agree with any group that won’t let me use their jump bridge network lol

That’s exactly how you sound atm

[Dyver_Phycad]

@Salvos_Rhoska

I agree entirely that it does not make sense that an OA bought/placed/fueled by someone would provide services for someone the owner does not want having access to them.

In other words: Just leave local as it is. Good that we established that again.

[Salvos_Rhoska]

@Dyver_Phycad

In other words: Just leave local as it is. Good that we established that again.

False.

All that established, is that it would be bad for an OA to provide services to someone the owner/buyer/placer/fueler does not want it to.

That has nothing to do with Local.