He is baiting you. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnaeIAEp2pU
I still like my idea of a tab on the login screen that says “Your feedback is important”. A noob rage quits after a pop. But the login in screen is still there. He/she sees it and learns how to complain without quitting. Meh… Reading these has become more fun than the game because of the pissing contests!
I wasn’t talking about posting your feedback threads in the various sub-forums, I was talking about merely posting a notification thread to direct the targeted player group to it.
Thanks for the invite, I’ll keep that in mind.
One of the things we’ve been talking about with CCP for a while is new player retention, and one of the things that’s been identified is unnecessary complexity. This is a perfect example of that - a completely opaque system that works nothing like how it sounds, especially given how common attribute systems are in other games that are meaningful. Take somebody off the street, looking at attributes, they will have no idea that it only impacts training time. Just another layer that adds little, if anything to the game.
So rip it out, but do it in a way that doesn’t impact the implant and booster market. Leave the complexity for things that actually matter, like fitting, tracking, and the like.
@DeMichael_Crimson how is it you missed this whole topic for almost a year?? There’s over 600 posts made in this topic.
CSM 13 - High Sec Issues/Suggestions/Ideas
and why would @Brisc_Rubal make a thread linking to another thread when there’s ways to see that a post has been made. You know he’s a CSM, you can always go look at CSM posts and see if there are new threads, or as Jerry mentioned, select either latest or newest to see any new posts that are made.
you are making this argument worse than it needs to be… the information was out there for hisec, lo/null to give ideas to the CSM’s… the fact that you missed it is nobodies fault but yours.
Dude, give it a rest already. It’s people like you who keep making things worse, constantly harping on the same crap.
As for your question about that thread topic, look where it’s posted. Not exactly a high usage sub-forum, or I should say it never use to be. Obviously it’s been changed and now has all kinds of different threads being posted in it.
I don’t know how long you’ve been a community member but for the longest time ‘Player Features & Ideas’ sub-forum was where players would post ideas for changes to current game mechanics as well as new content suggestions which, with the help of other players, would be refined and revised to remove all exploit / balance issues.
The ‘Assembly Hall’ sub-forum was where those finished ideas were posted as a proposal for players to show support and be reviewed by CSM members who would then hopefully bring it to CCP’s attention.
‘Jita Park’ sub-forum was where the CSM would post their threads and have open discussions with the playerbase about various game topics and other Eve related stuff.
Obviously the content of those sub-forums have changed from how I remember them. Also those sub-forums aren’t exactly high traffic areas, especially when compared to other sub-forums.
Anyway, that thread has nothing to do with this situation which was intentionally flamed and escalated by another person causing a ‘Domino Effect’.
This started with a statement in the CSM Summit Minutes about the CSM advocating the removal of Attributes and changing everything in-game that’s associated with them.
Now I’ve never seen any large outcry from the community requesting the removal of attributes and I’m pretty sure if there was, it would have shown itself in ‘General Discussion’ sub-forum. Course then it would have probably been locked or moved to the ‘Skill Discussion’ sub-forum.
So due to not seeing a large outcry from the community for the removal of attributes and then seeing CSM minutes advocating their removal, I thought the CSM was pushing their own agenda. Since the CSM is suppose to represent the playerbase and convey our concerns and ideas to CCP, I made a suggestion for them to first get input from the playerbase before they go to a Summit meeting.
After being informed they have various feedback threads about different topics posted in a sub-forum that’s rarely visited, I suggested posting a ‘notification’ thread in the sub-forums related to their thread topics. That would inform players who browse those sub-forums about the CSM feedback threads.
Then the crap-storm started with a certain someone who revels in flaming, nagging and nit-picking things to death which then incites a forum flame war. Then comes the gang-bangers who jump into the middle of it and fan the flames even more with snide little remarks.
Hopefully you and everybody else is now all caught up on current events. As such there’s no more need to continue escalating this with more discussion. It’s over and done now.
you started it.
You’re not the only one wondering where this idea came from and why the CSM is so fixated on it.
Explaining the attribute system to new players is a 30 second job, if that.
And it’s a 30 second job that says they are shafted for their first six months, And then cant explore new ideas because it penalizes their skill progression, while vet alts get to take full advantage of it. Makes for a great introduction to the game.
This has been done to death for years and years. CCP themselves have even said it’s a bad system. It’s just fear of the impact on the LP stores that is holding them back.
I have no idea what you’re on about, I certainly didn’t feel shafted or feel it held me back in any way whatsoever.
All of that could have been avoided if you simply had admitted that you were wrong, and acknowledged that we did what you wanted us to do.
I don’t blame you for not seeing it, but not acknowledging it after you were shown your criticism was baseless is kinda goofy, yo.
This has been on the list of potential changes for years.
It’s another layer of complexity that does nothing substantial, but forces another decision with what appears to be long term consequences on a new player who is already inundated with complexity.
And still the harping continues.
Sure, I was wrong in thinking there were no feedback threads posted by the CSM. Past CSM’s rarely posted feedback threads and over time the lack of that happening basically became accepted as normal behavior. The fact that you did post some threads is both refreshing and unconventional. However having those threads posted in an obscure rarely viewed sub-forum with no notification of them being there is almost as bad as not posting them at all.
By the way, what I suggested was to make the existence of those threads much more readily known to the playerbase. Obviously if that had been done in the first place, this whole situation never would have happened.
Anyway I’m done with this, have already wasted way too much time with it.
I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that you still keep moving the goalposts. But hey, at least you acknowledged you were wrong. That’s a step in the right direction.
Go to sub forum. Turn notifications on for it. There you go, now you get notified.
And you are in favor of replacing the current complexity with timed boosters like Steve suggests? Which would then add frustration because you not only have to waste ISK every other week for a new booster, you would also lose out on training time because of how they are timed.
The GSM should just get CCP to get rid of the attributes already to end this endless farce. Completely remove the system, give everyone max training speed (as you would not be able to lose that anyway under Steve’s pipe dream, it would just be unnecessary clutter and waste of ISK), keep the event boosters and be done with it already. These endless discussions without any measurable progress are disgraceful.
You do not need years to find a solution for that: Open up slots for more hardwirings. Simple. Just today I again had a situation where I had to choose between EG and WS hardwiring. That’s unnecessary and would be more than enough to compensate for removed implants. Not to mention that CCP culled that market already with timer-free clone switching in structures.
This is almost as useless of a prolonged discussion as Brexit “negotiations”.
Well, good. We do not need these instant-gratification-muppets in EVE. We got more than enough of them already. A competent and intelligent new user will see that skill accumulation progresses anyway regardless of your attributes and especially the low level skills that you train in the very beginning only benefit in the minutes and only in the high levels in the hours from perfect attributes. Personally, I have remapped once or twice, then noticed how useless it is because I was training at a very acceptable speed even with bad remap and thus gave up completely on that useless min-maxing. If people get turned off by not having the max-max training speed, they have far greater problems than not using EVE.
See above. It is quite frankly mindboggling how a company that came up with screw-ups like structures, skill trading and even had the time to think about introduction and then removal of premium currencies has not thought of the things I mentioned above. Especially if it is such a huge issue. Wars were culled within days after CCP and the GSM saw the impact on retention.
#CCPQualityThinking
Why it’s always “remove hard choice we need to make and give us the best outcome for free”? Why not reward everyone with minimal training speed instead?Why you want to punish smarter players with equaling them to those without any patience and ability to plan for future?
Because I do not want CCP do the stupid thing and adopt Steve’s idea of replacing implants with timed boosters that do not die upon podding.
Personally I don’t overly care what training speed it gets set to. I just want attributes, training implants gone. And would really like there not to be regular training boosters also, event ones… eh ok.
Max of course would be nice, but if it’s a flat rate then it is the new max anyway.
For me this is pretty important question. I don’t want stupid/impatient/lazy players to be rewarded for inability to understand and use this system. Because it punished better players.
Edit: similar to Learning skills. CCP should have removed them properly. Removed altogether with bonuses they provided to training speed. Instead CCP gave everyone the maximal possible training speed. Which was wrong.
I go back and forth. Steve’s suggestion is based on the concern that people are risk averse and won’t undock if they’ve got their training implants in (obviously, not something that I do, lol). So instead of an implant that some may view as too valuable to lose, you go with the longer duration booster. That saves you a jump clone and you don’t have to worry about dying.
At the same time, I like killing pods with expensive implants and I think it adds a little spice to PvP when you catch a pod.
So I’m split. I don’t want to deter PvP, but at the same time, I don’t want to lose those killmails. I think that’s an issue where I’d be interested in seeing what most folks think is the better answer. My gut tells me that it will be easier to simply change the implants to provide a small boost to skill point accrual rather than get rid of them all and go with boosters instead.
If they do get rid of attributes, I think that would make sense.
It’s not about instant gratification. It’s about throwing too many long-term impactful decisions at a new player too early. No matter how competent and intelligent they are, they probably aren’t going to figure out how attributes work before they’re deciding what to do with them. We don’t want folks making decisions without information, then realizing later that they screwed up and then getting discouraged and quitting because they ■■■■■■ up their character. That happens.