First CSM Summit Meeting Minutes

I’m aware of focus groups, have actually been involved in a few but they are very different to what CCP have adopted and in most cases for very different reasons.

As they are pretty important for the companies advertising and sales - it makes sense to talk to them.
CCP on the other hand don’t use focus groups so much as the most popular players from limited sectors of a very diverse set of players.
No-one could honestly say the CSM is representative of the Eve player base and no-one on the CSM could honestly say he or she understands “Eve” from everyone’s perspective.

Maybe it is time to let it die,survival to me sounds just more of the same null sec bears bitchin and moaning…

Dont take my isk!
Dont take my safety!
It is stagnant!

Is it really worth doing this any more…what else to kill in high sec so null can print money,
L4?
Incursions completely?
How much time will that bring?

Everything worth mentioning and with any momentum forward is in this game long past.
Recent past and present are

Stagnation
Safety
CCP supported griefing
Greed
Sellout
Cash grab
Funding projects failures
And worst is still coming.
Let it die with a name it once was or see it ruined further…because somewhere down the line it might be built again…no Hilmar no nullbears no low sec no high sec

Fresh new day, new EvE for everyone.

Best is its looking like 10 ADULT Members and ONE KILL AH BEE kiddo :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

Changes must be harsh, without there won’t be any salvage. As BO shown harsh changes didn’t mean NS will adapt. CCP is hostage now. NS was spoiled for so long that they have leverage on CCP, it’s either how they are playing or they won’t login.

Yeah, I don’t really care what he said or not. I’m more like the type to see what actions people do rather than live on what they say. And so far Olmeca has been an innovator, with a strong willpower, and that is more than enough to me. I’ve been helping and recruiting people irl or ingame for years and years, alike Kusion and friends, Olmeca is a bright star.

The years of experience does not guarantee the quality of the output. One can be a part of an organisation for decades and just be obedient, dormant, following the tide. In fact, most companies stay stagnant over the years because the people would rather get a steady cash flow, than try new (educated) things. As an example see how Mr Elon Musk changed the space industry, versus what NASA has been unable or unwilling to think outside the box. We have seen many key people leave CCP, and I am sure they too have long tried to change things, but met a cold brick wall instead.

Today we are on the brink of 2020, technology is ever fast pacing, and along with it the people are literally sipping through the various competitions on a daily basis, seeking the best experience. If CCP is unwilling to adapt (using educated guess vs hectic lash outs) to this radical change of behavior, then we should expect this game will stall to a dormant/constant point.

Of course not what CCP posts. I meant that CSM control what the people are posting on the forum (etc.), and this in relation to threads alike Main AFK cloaky which I believe is closely knit to BO.

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As a solution for recruitment, bring back (emphasize more on) the ‘Flight Academy’, and in modular form as mentioned in the minutes. Make it such that, on one end the recruiters can select which modules they expect the newbros to have (when they are making their corp advert), and on the other end - as newbros are going through the various tutorials, they can already perceive which corp/alliance seek those ‘skill sets’. This would be the 1st contact where newbros link with recruitment. Also have the recruitment window integrated in the tutorial window. Sorry for ambiguity, I have an idea in my head, maybe I shall draft it and add it here later on.

Changes that make sense, yea. Changes that are done for the sake of changes, no thank you. And what CCP has been doing the past 3+ month is to launch things that dont make sense and hope it sticks

CCP clearly has no path with last changes. They just experiment “gather data” and see what happen. Minutes shows that they are focusing on stoping bleeding and helping newbros. CCP has known history of making bad decisions even when they were warned about them. They keep telling us like a mantra that they will look it up and tweak if needed which is almost never happen. It’s not a rocket science what is wrong with EvE, but they want to eat a cookie and have a cookie (SP trading). I don’t buy an argument that this game is so complex now. It is not. Most of current state was predicted. There are nobody to stand up and steer this ship. Certainly not this redhead joke.

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It’s very easy to say “It was predicted” when 50 predictions get made about any change.
Of course one of them is going to be right.

Not to say CCP haven’t sometimes missed the obvious, but really, throw enough mud, some will stick and that’s what we as a player-base do with predictions.
And often we don’t know why those predictions happened either because we have no control group. For all we know Black out actually kept numbers up compared to what would have happened during that time period, without traveling to an alternate universe we will never know.

Let’s see:
SP trading - caps everywhere
Citadels - structures spaming nobody bother to farm
Assets safety - no reason for fight
Nullification on ceptors - space taxi
Removing nullification from one - guess what? Moving to another one
Carriers and rourq change - isk prints
Isk print - we made economy rubbish when loss is insignificant now

Every crucial changes had posts warning in their devblog threads, go back and see. It’s not that I made things up here. Most crucial is SP trading, it messed up so badly everything. Gap between vets and newbros should be narrowed, while it’s even bigger now.

Now you mention the overview maybe CCP could impliment one from the community

Sow, why are so many people claimoring for the CSM to go away? What would that add to the game? Jin’Tan, a former member of the CSM flr about 3 years, said that they talked CCP out of about 1-2 game ending decisions per year. So, the CSM does do good stuff. And they contribute. While removing them eouldn’t add anything to either CCP or the health of the game. Seriously ,it’s like wanting to remove democracy because what you think is important for your own area doesn’t get immediatly focused on. That’s just not how life works, there are other areas of the game out there too. And yes, the majority of the changes are in nullsec, but that is also where the majority of the news come from. Because I haven’t found a single news report focused on a fight between players in highsec. And CCP is a company, they have to think of financial health as well as the health of the game over all. And, since the majority of the paying population is in nullsec, other areas will often get the short stick.

Not only harsh, but clever.

I‘m advocating for resource depletion on overfarming like with PI. Let the bears fight each other about resources. Because when you then run out of anomalies or belt roids, the only one to blame is the turbo krabber next to you. Force them to be really social.

Together with tags instead of bounties this IMO will solve a good part of the income problem.

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More than ever, I think ppl are worried about EVE’s future, which is one of the few Op Success of “chaos”.
There are voids in the information provided by CSM this time, especially regarding what’s in the near future.
I don’t know if people is actually calling out the CSM, I don’t see it that way, of course there are some posts… frustration, I say.
We still have wet boots coming of the mud pit that black summer was and winter is upon us. Some of us just don’t want to explain again why is it so important this time to give EVE a positive shock and we were expecting at least a hint of a blue pill, to put it somehow.

It did not happen.

Historically, CSM isn’t known for “revealing” what’s to come, at least not literally. But gone seem to be those times in which there was optimism coming out of those meetings. CSM used to be provider of relief and gave us something to look up to.

I understand your point but cannot say I agree. People are just voicing their frustration all over the place and I am sure the current CSM knows it and also talked to CCP about it. These are representatives of players, yes but also the voice of those who generate a big chunk of income for EVE.

So, it’s a burden. And no matter how cold or rough it may sound, well… deal with it!.

I just cannot understand why so many responses from CCP to questions put forth by the CSM resulted in so many variations of “we have no idea.” Highly touting their data gathering abilities following Into the Abyss, CCP now cannot seem to be able to have said data readily available for a long scheduled meeting. Remember that the CSM have been holding near weekly meetings as well as frequent communications not only between CSM members, but inside direct contact means with CCP developers. Nothing should have caught CCP by surprise. Yet, the summit notes read like a modern version of questioning Sgt. Schultz. (look it up yourself :wink:)

The CCP ship appears to be taking on water and without any navigation tools, rudderless, and with an eccentric captain at the helm. No wonder so many people are crowding the lifeboats.

That’d be nice, yes. Though probably a simplified version of the available packs. The current ones are a little busy for a newbie.

I think Arrendis was trying to say that this is not “this newer version of CCP”.

It’s a bitter one to board, when you see that there is an underlying approach to the way CCP handles the game and how many see them so “distant”, perhaps.

Being an old code and all that is no excuse. I think any dev company should always bring new blood, push them to the top and progress. But sometimes I just think it’s too much of a niche and “alone” in the gaming industry.

I remember a free to play “cat people” MMO long ago. I thought it was brilliant and such nice concept around a topic that to me was guarantee of constant new players influx, given that it maintained publicity.
But those on the big seats never moved, never did good business of it and the game never progressed and tho it’s still out there, no one plays it anymore.

Somehow, it’s the same with EVE. I came to this game because back then, it was to me the closest gameplay environment to the ads in terms of graphics immersive experience. But it’s a spaceship “sim” and that’s a no brainer to Xucca. Nerds are on the rise and I don’t know of a single one that wouldn’t love to check out a space sim. I know very few that will accept the challenge and less who would willingly pay the fee, given that we exclude those who cannot afford it.

I don’t know where the policy of giving out free stuff comes from. In my line of RL work, I find that people seem to actually behave better and more predictably when they are charged for something that we could give for free. We don’t do it and charge little but experience showed us that “free” carries no sense of belonging.

EVE has been on the giveaway rollercoaster too long. A wrong strategy for me, and a mess for the game.

I think that this game should focus on mass from the pricing POW. It’s too expensive for the mass, it’s demanding on the machines and darn hard to play from the start.

Maybe the “new blood” in CCP should come to the marketing and financial section and remove the burden from devs, so they can focus on the game and leave the revenue to others through the RL modern strategies. EVE is what it is and derailing towards a mass that only feels on board with instant gratification is too far of a stray from this concept. It’s just another kind of game.

I rather have a bar with 100 peeps paying 3 dollar beer, happily charring the liver than 50 with a half empty glass and bourbon in the glove compartment. Maybe EVE should be a 6-8 USD/mo sub and cut freebies by 70%, see what goes.

Because this chaos… nah.

I think wormhole space was initially implimented very well because of their dynamics and i think any changes to them should follow suit for example, theres a massive difference between groups who roll to pvp and those who roll to farm.
My personal suggestion would be to use the WH anomalies as modifiers to balance it out, we already know theres an algorythm that reduces the anom spawn should they be ran excessively so why not use it?
Wondering wh classes would be great as well, so you’d always have a wondering wh where its mass and time are randomized within the constraints of the system type (so class 1’s would get only Small or mediums but not large but a c5 would be entirely randomized)

My point about “top ten” is that the top ten vote getters get elected. You have ten votes. Pick the ten people from among those running that you think will do a good job, however you define that, and vote for those people.

It wasn’t a bad concept. It’s the same system that already existed in wormholes, and trying that in nullsec space was designed to address a bunch of concerns that players have had for a while - local is the perfect intel tool and it makes the larger groups much safer, botting often (but not always) relies on local, and a desire to change things up for folks who believed they’d solved the game in nullsec.

Blackout hit all of those points. It helped fix the isk faucet issue, which had been out of control for years.

Now, obviously, people didn’t like it and their response was to stop logging in, so it had to go. But the folks who are now screaming with 20/20 hindsight about obviously horrible it was and everybody should have known it aren’t being fair or reasonable.