For Folks who are 'Leaving'

I even think that CSM, most DEV posts, are some sort of a poll. A way to test the waters disguised as whatever… but I still answer sometimes. We-the-people should not care if there are hindered intentions.
As for moderators… recent events have me convinced that they too, have a batphon --not just in game-- instead of reading the whole deal. Sadly, this past week in particular, was an awful one for the forum.

But who am I to even think that some people don’t deserve an opinion?
It’s just that when they go at it… --and I’m not talking about trolls… I even enjoy them mostly-- they just destroy the primary objective --or what we perceive-- of their job, even voluntary.

The CSM was designed to be a mediator between players and CCP, (As you say a type of poll to define what players who were paying in some cases (Hundreds of pounds a month, Wanted from a MMO)) it worked well for about 2 years, then CCP stopped listening, Most of the current changes, including blackout, scarcity, and interdiction, and all the industry changes, were not given the green light by the CSM, but CCP went ahead nevertheless. And that explains the state of the game well over half the players have left in the last 6 years Thats well over 20000 People) . which is terrible in a world where the population is increasing by 83 million every year. so something is very very wrong, as every other established MMO has a increasing player base.

2 Likes

I am skeptical that this is the case. Do you have any source or reproducible analysis to substantiate the claim?

1 Like

certainly Sir/Madam, EVE-Offline :: EVE-Online Status monitor just set it to all. And 20000 was a understatement, unfortunately. the reason i say a understatement, is simple CCP uses a simple little trick to bolster there numbers and thats “Log on and get free Skill Points” so how many people do you think log on, get the skill points then dont play for the rest of the day, Eve-offline works on the median of players who logged on during that 24 Hour Period.

2 Likes

I Take this is a Alt, From your history you seem to have not done a damn thing in eve except die quite a lot, yet you like to criticize those that are concerned for the state of the game. If you love this game like we do , (NOT CCP) then you cant be a person with such lack of interaction within a MMO, and have such a opinion. So if you want your words to be valid and have some meaning please share your age on your main, so we can know you have a understanding of the game.

1 Like

???

of earth, not eve thats for sure lol.

1 Like

Eve promises limitless possibilities, and it does deliver on the potential that a player can grow to extreme heights. But EvE does not promise handholds or paths - and this is what many prospective eve players fail to recognize, or worse, fail to embrace.

No and no, it wouldn’t be EvE and it wouldn’t help player retention (in my opinion)

The alternative question is if the average EvE experience were shown as it really is (the initial struggle through tons of interface elements, mechanics, common tactics, not to mention temporary challenges like getting isk, resources and setting the first medium term goals AND that losses are real and often unexpected), would it deter people from trying it ? Starting in EvE is like growing up under fire. It takes time and there’s always some level of danger in any activity. Players are up against the most dangerous opponents that any game can provide: other players. I wouldn’t recommend EvE to someone who is totally naive of the concepts of a full blown pvp game. At least that bit of honesty should be present somehow in ads about EvE.

The best way to prepare players is not the NPE. I sincerely think that the NPE is, and always will be inadequate, in the same way that schools do not teach about real life, but only about discrete elements of real life. The best NPE, honestly, is to play with other people, asap, pronto - and a lot more effort should be put into tackling that difficult task. The NPE itself should be about basic mechanics and especially the UI, without trying to be a safety net for hurt feelings of loss. Safety comes from who one plays with, the advice and perhaps material aid one gets, and this cannot be captured by software. What the NPE could be, first of all a way to get acquainted with the controls, with the basic ways to get resources like isk, and a warning that one has to set goals and stick to them for long enough to achieve something, well we seem to be far off from that. The de facto new player experience should be experiencing other players as guides and tutors. It would perhaps also kill the illusion that EvE can be done solo as a new player - bar the really tenacious ones, of course, who thrive in complex environments and love tons of data, but these are the least likely to quit…

The game is not changeable, one would have to change the very core and concept to make it change, and then it wouldn’t be even a shadow of EvE. I firmly believe that many new players, including those that come with completely wrong expectations and maybe even attitudes, can be shown how to survive their first weeks in EvE, set on a relevant development path for their pilot, start appreciating the vastness of the possibilities, and then thrive for years to come. Only other players can do that on any scale. Separating wheat from chaff happens in any game - a game may not be to one’s liking after all - but perhaps more so in EvE, and needlessly, because people get overwhelmed with tons of info they need to absorb, plus the fact that it’s a full on pvp game anywhere. So, guidance is necessary if the aim is growth of the retention and the pcu.

Yep. This game is unique, it should remain unique, because quite frankly, the pve in this game is not good enough to make it a good game that’s not unique but more pleasing for about two months. The pvp is good enough, but pvp is most likely a major hindrance to new player retention if they are not guided properly. That is my honest opinion. Vets learned to take the negative with the positive. Their task is to teach new players about the positive - which outweighs the negative or we wouldn’t be here.

1 Like

Why do you think that the majority of EVE-quitters wanted or thought that EVE had handhold?? Are you suggesting that every other game has handholds and that only EVE doesn’t hold your hand and that only those who stay online on EVE are worthy players or what?
While reading this thread, the answers are obvious as to why players quit EVE, even reading the Quit threads, and very few, if any, mention that the game is too hard and more help is needed.
They’re saying ( correctly or not ) that CCP has bad practices, that the game isn’t built for space battles ( unless there are 4000 players in a system duking it out ) but ambush play where you can’t do anything, they’re saying that the ‘open-world’ part of EVE is gone, they are tired of CCP nerfing crap, tired of Scarcity, tired of bullies, tired of resources changes… but ‘no handholds’ ?? Where did you read that?

In my opinion, CCP should make entire swaths of the galaxy a NO SHOOTING zone. Hell, they even have a demilitarized zone between N.K and S.K so why not in a universe of businessmen and religious zealots? Would it be because without ship destruction CCP makes less money? … no, I’m sure that’s not the reason why spaceships easily pop in space like popcorn in a pan.

That has nothing to do with player retention. Unless you’re 10y/o, the term ‘PvP’ is petty much understood by all gamers, even if it’s in Fornite.

Guides and tutors for a game?? Pay a monthly subscription PLUS have to give a portion of your grind to some pompous arsehole who’s going to show you what he loves to do in a game? Where’s the open-world in that?

Regardless of the BS coming from CCP, the first week(s) in EVE aren’t the most challenging. It’s the first few months to a year, when the player’s mind starts going “what in the hell am I even playing this game for? It certainly is not for the “fun” of being jumped on from nowhere and the fight being over before it even starts!”.

PS: To which someone will reply: EVE isn’t about the ships it’s about the relationships, the community yaddy-yadda… Well, many other games have great communities as well but that’s not what sells a game, it’s a secondary consideration, if that.

5 Likes

Really? When was the last time? Because I dont think you know how to check a history.

If Im not killed a lot on ZKill dont you think that means I know how to not get killed in PvP?

Im certainly not about to be lectured by someone who doesnt know how capital letters work.

So you are suggesting I have a “main” which is younger than this character? You realise how stupid that sounds, right?

See, what I dont get is why you think thats a valid thing to say to me, and not Rrolf (the only guy who liked your post) who doesnt actually play anymore by his own admission?

I think you just barely broke the ice with that reply but I gotta say it was very well said and I wholeheartedly agree 100%, you certainly shed some light onto the shadow of deceit spun by players who intentionally won’t acknowledge the truth.

1 Like

Thank you, sir. Coming from you, it means a whole lot to me.

They’re like frogs in slow boiling water, austriches with their heads in the sand… even with the recent massive players’ exodus they’re still trying to pull all sheets their way, damn be the game, damn be the players with other playstyles as long as their mindless pew-pew is rewarded with pretty ‘kabooms’ until the lack of targets forces even them to contemplate that, yes, maybe EVE is dying, just maybe.
I guess those players will be the last few ones obstinately renewing their membership even when EVE is left with 2000 daily players while they peackock their presence on the forum going “git gud” and “htfu”, their words echoing into oblivion, where EVE is currently headed if CCP doesn’t get its sh- together.

2 Likes

Well, I don’t really share their viewpoint. However I’ve been subbed for over 13 years and will continue to stay subbed, up to the day the servers are shut down…

When that happens I’ll be able to say:

3 Likes

I guess you’ll get the last laugh. And congrats on your dedication.
I’ll keep logging in but, on principle only, I won’t continue to sub. The game is/was great, the company’s decision makers are not.

1 Like

Yeah, I don’t log-in as much as I use to do. I mainly do it to keep my character training Omega skills.

( dammit I ran out of hearts )
And the Omega scheme is what is saving EVE. Once a player invests a couple of years’ worth of money and efforts ( and sometimes even shirking on his real-life responsibilities ) on a game, it is very hard for that player to just walk away or play in a lesser capacity.
I don’t want to become hostage to my own impulses and I’m so glad I checked out the forum while it was still possible to go "EVE? Meh… "
Maybe that’s why the forum link is buried at the end of the Game Page. I’ve spent enough time here to see that many players are not mincing words on what CCP is doing to their favorite game.

5 Likes

In case people - perhaps including your good self - forgot, this is a game for nerds, players who love tough, complex challenges and heaps of data that they tend to handle with spreadsheet programs they love using - and no, it’s not nicknamed ‘spreadsheets in space’ because some parts of the UI look like a piece of spreadsheet.

A common trait the average eve players share is that they adapt their behavior to the challenge. They have the intelligence and willingness to do that and acknowledge that the game doesn’t revolve around their petty wishes but that they are a rather small speck in a huge environment. Refusing to acknowledge that in a pvp game the prime challenge is other players is a recipe for disaster and forum whining.

My favorite EvE meme has always been “EvE is Real”. One of the reasons is that the social behavior of players thrown into EvE seems to follow at least a few similar paths as it does on our real planet: in challenging times and environments, people understand they need to stick together and try to survive together. If that takes some “pompous arsehole” (sic) as you call it to get it through someone’s thick skull, then perhaps it will help in the end. The social factor is of major importance in EvE.

If anyone comes into our little, virtual Darwinian environment with the demand to be able to pretend other players don’t exist, let alone are needed, want safe zones for their petty and limited activities, then they should do themselves the favor of not even trying to log in. They did not and never will accept this game’s nature, but will try their damndest to poison every thread, shout long and hard enough to get the changes they want for their limited play styles and kill the main play style that made the game what it has always been: ingenious, harsh, rough, complex, limitless, and elitist.

The big(ger) pond ccp is trying to fish in with their major efforts in the npe will not deliver the right type of player - the one that does not cry about it when another player smashed the sand castle that was so painstakingly built. It may help with their revenue, but it will not advance the stability of its community.

Those that expect an organized game requiring little thought are out of luck. What’s on offer is the ultimate challenge: check if you have what it takes to survive New Eden. And please don’t complain when the answer is no. It’s not the game’s fault. You want easy, well, easy is not on offer. Pretending that the game could be made easier is the real "shadow of deceit spun by players who intentionally won’t acknowledge the truth" (dixit DMC). The game’s nature is the way it’s supposed to be, all is well.

Funny how vets return to the game because they want to be with their space nerd buddies. Even when they have left for many years, they remember “good times” - and that’s not grinding rocks or shooting npc’s. Player interaction is the biggest attractant in the long term, and the biggest factor in retention. Along the same lines, putting a rookie into a small fleet, and explaining stuff does a lot more than Aura voice overs ever will.

Perhaps I’m running low on patience, and my apologies for any hurt feelings, but I’d like to share a picture that drives home the message in a funny, cheeky way:
Can you spot the real EvE player ?
1_WestfdzvkSEriY7WmvHkJg

2 Likes

I’ve already read most of your reply in other threads several times so I won’t comment on it as others have done better than I could but, in regard to the above quoted, I will echo a sentiment I’ve also read several times on this forum:
“The game isn’t properly balanced and the Risk-vs-Reward is all kinds of skewed but oh well, at least I’m playing with my buddies and it makes the experience so much better to be able to fleet with them again.”
Isn’t that confusing ‘what a game gives’ with a defacto situation and attitude of resignation about what could’ve been but isn’t ?
I mean, CCP might as well expand to an in-game dating platform while they’re at it.

Careful now, Cypherpuss will be in here to tell you that if its not a spaceship it doesnt belong in the game and apparel sales dont prove people want to buy apparel.

2 Likes

While the first part of that statement is certainly true, especially now with the scarcity and indy changes, I think that is something that more experienced players are going through, not so much the reason why newer players are leaving. And that is quite concerning. If vets start to leave over these issues - even those that are fully x-trained and are only temporarily challenged by balance changes - because they consider them bad game design changes, then ccp will get into trouble. Being part of the community probably takes them a while longer to make the decision, unless they decide to leave in groups at a time (as I think happened in 2015-16). But that’s me guessing.

1 Like