What’s the current numbers and what numbers would be an appropriate “bigger role”?
based on kzill , 2%(random), but based on the forum, 98% (again)
Mining, overall, is a fairly low-intensity activity. You have a lot of time to watch local and research the players that are coming and going. See what corps they’re in or used to be in, see what kind of things they kill, make lists for yourself and mark people that are suspicious to you for whatever reason. You can build up a sense for these things and over time you learn when it might be a good time to pull your drones and maybe start aligning to a station, just in case. If there’s a Catalyst on directional scan within 1 AU, that’s your time to warp out.
Maybe it would help you to try out ganking sometime. It’s not always effortless and you don’t always succeed. You have to think and plan and research your targets and study what their ship is equipped with and determine how many ships you need and with which quality of fittings. You have to move around carefully and try not to spook them. I have mined and ganked for many years and I will tell you this: it’s the miner’s game to lose. If the miner is using his resources and paying careful attention, the ganker really has no chance to catch him. If you can’t nod your head to this, I really suggest you study harder and learn more about the game, because I promise you it’s true. We catch the slow, sickly buffalo, every time. Not the alert and healthy one that saw us enter local and docked up. We catch the one that’s watching netflix on the 2nd monitor, we catch the one that’s got no tank and has local chat minimized.
You can use an intel processing tool like adashboard to give you some fast intel on the people in local chat with you. If you have frequent problems in your favorite 0.5 mining system, consider moving somewhere less popular, into an 0.6 or 0.8 system. It’s all choices for you to make and you’re not helpless. It’s totally possible to safely mine all day in a Hulk in high-sec but you have jobs to be doing constantly to keep yourself safe and if you are lazy and inattentive then you will feed gankers. You have no basis for complaining about this; the game is very, very fair to miners and it just got even better because you guys whined so much that CCP saw fit to double the EHP of these big, bulky, “risky” ships. And you will still get ganked and you will still whine about it, even though the game is entirely built for YOUR success and it’s only the most lazy and sorry cases that get caught by gankers.
What’s next, they give you an immortal force field that traps you in with the Asteroid so nothing can attack you until you’ve harvested the whole thing? Or just tow the whole rock into your station hangar and mine with hand tools?
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Alas not, if it is competing with Netflix…
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Preach it sir. Preach it.
I would just like to add the thread I started that is unrelated to the OP, but still entirely relevant ADC Mining barge OR Orca Triage or PANIC module
Basically introduction of a mining barge ADC OR consider giving the Orca Triage powers from the new industrial module.
For what tradeoff? (ie. what downsides would you also add, to balance adding such a buff)
To quote myself here Scipio
" Edit 2: After seeing the new ingame module for Industrial Reconfiguration the Orca needs to be angled as a HS triage option for mining fleets, ganking would not be impossible but the chances of whiping entire fleets out or high value barges would be greatly reduced whilst also relying on the Orca pilot’s skill to manage/cycle RR shield reps when under attack. "
That would be my most balanced version without any ADC or PANIC module.
So no tradeoff then?
Just buff with no downside. It won’t happen, but all the best with it I guess.
No amount of EHP or ‘watching local/Dscan’ will save you from getting ganked from a well-prepared ganker…or more often than not group of gankers. I can’t remember the last time I saw a solo ganker attack a miner in a belt.
Mining in a ‘quiet system’ may work for a while, but somebody ‘owns’ that space and they will eventually notice you. Also, good luck on piloting your new 18 second align time exhumer/procurer to get to these spots (thanks CCP for making it even harder to escape).
It’s just like @Essara-Ta said earlier in the thread they will bring a cloaked ship and drop right on top of you. Or they bring in another mining ship and bookmark you. Concord will not save you because the fight will be over in seconds. I have watched properly tanked Orcas with alert pilots actively trying to defend get popped in high sec by fewer than a handful of ships in less than 10 seconds.
TL;DR Ganking only fails when the Gankers make a mistake not the target.
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This is just patently false. I almost have to wonder why you would push such misinfo. If this is true, how did I fail to kill the retriever last night? People solo gank all the time btw.
Wut, no ganker in highsec is using a cloaked ship ROFL. What ganker wastes time flying in a mining ship ROFL. These things just don’t happen.
If the Orca was properly tanked, then they used the appropriate amount of force. I’m betting they used cruisers or up, prob even some talos. That pilot wasn’t alert. As soon as they landed in system, he should have been hauling quafe to get to a safe. The fact that he didn’t? All on him and he was def not alert so lets not front hm?
Watching local will save you greater than 90% of the time. Also following smart opsec while mining. Don’t mine at the warp in point. Sacrifice some yield and run a higgs so you can warp out quick. The game literally gives you the tools.
Again, to clarify, we are talking about high sec PvP. Low/null is different.
Please learn to EVE kthx.
This subject has been discussed to death over the years.
There is a smple anwser to this problem. Mining in HS? Use Procurer and Skiff only. The extra yield of a covetor or Hulk is not worth it with the risks of ganking.
The odd to be ganked in a procurer or skiff is close to zero. No gankers will takes the numbers needed to gank you when there are juicy covetor or hulks everywhere.
Hobo Mining Survival Guide
A 10 mil catalyst maxes at 750 dps (thermal 50%,kinetic 50%), the choice of suicide gankers in “high security space”. In said .5 space and above, if someone attacks you, it takes 30 sec for concord response time (+/- 4sec per security rating). That’s up to 22k damage per catalyst before concord arrives. A fleet of 6 cheap 1mil catalysts output 400 dps(42% thermal, 58% kinetic), or 72k damage in .5 space, easily overwhelming any mackinaw.
Blingy drones, modules, implants, and shiny tech II ships attract scumbags a plenty, seeking to profit from wrecks or just collect salty tears in local, ignore and block them as if they were a passing storm, one does not get mad at the weather, rather prepared. Keep an eye on 50+ in local by compacting name lists. Set known gankers and corps to bad standing(see zkillboards.com, ganked). Orbit to avoid direct warpins, bumping, and dodge shots. When your ship blows up, save your pod by using the shortcut “s” key on something far in overview, as pods align and warp instantly.
You answered your question yourself. Ganking w/o proper preparation is why you failed to clap the Retriever.
Well we found a way , we mined in a known ganker sys they attack us and failed and this was before any changes, so can be done
Oh? So what would be “proper” preparation? This was in low sec by the way. I don’t gank.
By your logic, if you decide to kill someone, then they die 100%. Yet thousands of people escape death daily. How is that so?
The customary response when your mining ship is bested in combat is “good fight;” if you were bested by CODE. agents, you may instead use “good fight, agent.” Don’t forget to ask about a Mining Permit afterward. 10 million ISK is much cheaper than any mining barge or exhumer. It’s a good deal–it’s just common sense. Get your permit today: no tank is more effective than a permit tank.
Remember, you don’t have to be faster than the gankers: you only have to be faster than the slow, sickly buffalo. If you’re in the more tanky, lower-cost ship, further away from the warp-in point, more prepared to warp away, visibly running shield resist modules, wary of scanning ships warping into your belt, watching D-scan for Catalysts within 2-3 AU, or engaging in any of dozens of other best practices… you simply won’t be the one that gets caught. Gankers go for low-hanging fruit, fat, ripe, juicy, and ready to be picked. Is that you? If not, then you won’t be picked.
Takes effort tho. Which is what they don’t want.
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You uh… shouldn’t be using a Hulk alone… ever; the Hulk is a dedicated mining exhumer that requires a support to be ISK effective it’s literally a platform to just eat rocks and poop out ore.
The ore hold is too small for it to be effective as a solo platform.
Instead, they need to be in Mackinaw’s; these have about 80% more tank than the Hulk and carry 2x the ore making them far more suitable for solo-mining.
A single Catalyst with the changes in a 0.5 system won’t be popping any of these ships either; appropriately fit they all exceed 30k EHP and if you overload the shield hardener it’ll punt it up another 6-8k.
Honestly… it would be nice if they got a drone damage and velocity bonus; give them a little bit of teeth to fight back or if they want to go the “wait it out” bit allow us to equip assault damage control modules.
My own Mackinaw fit sits at around 54k EHP and does about 45m3/s of yield (with drones and type A II crystals) and with an overheated hardener it’s around 57k and if you pull back on yield a bit you can easily hit 60k.
Exhumers these days have about 70k eHP if fit properly.