Thing is, increasing the risk is one method.
Another would be to have the incoming ore go to the regular hold, not the ore hold, forcing the pilot to move it manually.
This would really only penalize AFKers.
One of the base problems is Orca is filling two roles, miner and hauler.
No, it would penalise everyone forcing them to add clicks just to satisfy you.
As for mining at work, show itās actually a common problem. Pointing at orcas existing doesnāt prove this problem even exists.
And there are already significant solutions in game to this in the way of FOB & Emerging conduits.
Mining afk isnāt a bad thing?.. Ok bot.
The amount of orcas out there suggests to me they arenāt enough of a deterrent.
Iāve never been worried about them. Iāve never seen the rats that are meant to spawn from an out post and the trigs are quite weak in my experience.
Because there really isnāt a problem, naĆÆve, ignorant, or in denial? 
Donāt even bother answering.
Please, show some actual stats that there is a problem. And then show that the only possible way to solve this problem is to utterly ruin every single miners day with make work clicking and dragging just because you say so.
This whole thread is just about ruining players days to satisfy a few peopleās egos and beliefs.
Way to deliberately misread a sentence. Train reading to 1 and go back and try again.
The MER.
How?
Youāre either arguing that afk mining is a good thing and shouldnāt be discouraged or that afk mining isnāt bad enough to cause problems with the economy.
The first is poor judgement. The second is denial.
No.
If Iām wrong he can make his position explicitly clear.
Something you had trouble with last timeā¦
But he did say this:
Is primarily null sec rorqual ore, as shown by the mining breakdown. Has no information on what ship is used in highsec to get the highsec ore. So your āsourceā is useless for the claim you are making.
Are you trying to say high-sec mining is insignificant?
Combine all null sec and compare it to all high sec.
Thatās why i showed you a screen shot of Jufvitte d-scan.
Null Sec got in front of high sec mining 2 or 3 years ago and has been trending further and further ahead since. The MER breakdown includes low sec since its per region so canāt be done entirely accurately. But please do go ahead and post the maths youāve clearly already done since itās your own source and claim
Which by your own maths had Covetors mining more ore than Orcas.
And there is no evidence in that screenshot or the MER to suggest that Orca mining while people are at work is common enough to justify any kind of wrecking of the game for everyone else.
So much that i canāt look at the MER and say āmining and production vs destruction is out of whack and hi-sec mining has something to do with that!ā
Youāre saying hi-sec mining is so insignificant the above statement is wrong?
On the contrary. It showed orcas were not only the most popular way to mine, but the most popular ship of all.
Remember, those covetors are only mining for a couple hours and the orcas for 8 hours.
So you established that orcas have bad yield.
Weāve established there are 4 orcas for every 5 barges so itās unlikely they are all boostingā¦
And we already know the mack is more popular than skiffs despite their tankā¦
So you think people mine in orcas because?..
Prove it.
You coming up with a story doesnāt make this a fact.
And even if it is true, it doesnāt justify any of the proposals put forward here all of which harm other players more than your alleged target group.
Thatāll take timeā¦like 8 hours.
A nerf to orca yield is objectively more damaging to afk orca players than it is to people who use orcas in fleets as support ships.
But you claimed the fact that to ask you have to mine in a horribly inefficient low yield method doesnāt matter because itās afk.
You canāt even make your mind up about your own argument. If a yield nerf will hurt themā¦ there is no need for a nerf because itās already the lowest yield, and it harms everyone else more because a 10% nerf on a larger number is a larger nerf. If it wonāt hurt them there is no point and it harms everyone else.
Soā¦ Even by your own arguments, it harms everyone else more.
Except we already know from the previous iteration of the orca that once yield goes below a certain threshold afk mining in orcas becomes undesirable enough that few people do it.
Same with using a miasmos with one mining laser. Again, look at my d-scan. Only one miasmos, and i bet it wasnāt mining.
So whilst people are happy to mine sub-optimally when afk (see popularity of mack and rettie), there is a point where a yield is low enough it becomes widely undesirable (see old orca and mining miasmos).
So Iām fully aware of my arguments. Question is, are you?
How?
Objectively afk orcas rely on yield more than orcas being used as support.
Do you wonder why anyone used the orca before it got a mining drone buff?
Then your claim, that THOSE specifically ships remain for 8 H, is BS.
Even if, it would be irrelevant to their impact on the game (just because they are present 8H does not mean they are mining 8H) ; and whatās more irrelevant to the ratio of mining done by orcas.
And even then, it would be irrelevant to the general case. If you donāt have real data you canāt say anything. Your approximation is made up on the spot, and poorly at that.
But I agree that the orcas are in a better shape, if you donāt want to mine efficiency. And already agreed that itās because of their increase tank. Therefore, the only correct answer, is to give 10k HP to the shield of barges, and 20k to the shield of exhumers, so that they are less worthless to use.
No they donāt. If you are AFK, you mine at most 5 rocks and thatās it. and over 8 hours you actually mined 5 rocks.
Your sentence is just complete BS. You make up stupid arguments to go along a stupid idea, jut because its output matches your desire. Thatās hypocrisy.
Do you think itās false data?
Present your own perhaps? Itās the best way to refute my arguments. The more the merrier.
So you think a single mining drone can finish a moon rock within 8 hours?
200m3 a minute = 12k m3 an hour = 96k m3 in 8 hours. Thatās with zero travel time.
Moon rocks are over 200k m3ā¦
So yeah orcas can mine until they fill their hold by mining 5 separate rocks. The math above demonstrates it doesnāt even need to be the biggest rocks you can get in a moon belt.
My statements isnāt wrong in the slightest. A yield nerf objectively punishes an orca designed to do nothing but mine afk compared to orcas used for boosting/fleet support. We DO know that there is a yield threshold where they will be widely regarded as inappropriate for afk mining but are still used for support.
since all this is revolved around the orca, and since alpha pilots canāt fly orcas, why not just shuffle the orcas out of hisec and into low or null onlyā¦
Is very heavy handed considering we had perfectly fine orcas in hi-sec a few years ago.
Null and low have rorquals. (yeah theyāre broken too, but thatās a rorqual problem not an orca problem)