Increase CONCORD Response Time at non-Gate/non-Station locations

Except this hurts non AFK miners even more.
Take your numbers of 1000/min. If you afk it’s inefficient due to travel time so lets say 500/min.
Now apply a 10% nerf.
The non AFK pilot looses 100, the AFK pilot looses 50.
So clearly this is a bad solution because it hits pilots who aren’t causing an issue more than it hits those who are.

Lets assume that AFK Orcas are an issue, I still disagree that this is actually an issue on any scale, and therefore don’t think changes need making because of it, but lets just roll with it as an “issue” for this exercise.
What we want is something that won’t impact on non AFK pilots, since we aren’t trying to address the Orcas total production, but the Orcas AFK production, but that will reduce AFK ability.

So, lets put this forward as an idea.
Mining Drones become 25m/25band.
Harvester Drones should get rebalanced to actually fit the progression properly in here, rather than actually being inefficient compared to their bandwidth.
Yield & Cargo space per mining drone *5.
They already have a speed slower than a heavy drone, so we don’t need to change that.
Now they can’t split the drones between as many rocks, so they can’t afk as well which means there is no danger of them being able to leave Orcas mining while at work, like you claimed was an issue, but it’s not going to significantly impact on pilots who aren’t AFK.
It does have two small unintended consequences, that it in theory increases the yield of the Covetor/Hulk since they could fly 2 of the new mining drones worth 10 of the old mining drones, but… since Covetors/Hulks are probably considered amongst the least common of the Barges currently, this may not be a bad thing to slightly increase their max yield if well managed.
And that ventures won’t be able to use mining drones anymore. But again, I don’t think this is a huge issue, since Omega’s move into Barges and we don’t really want Alpha’s to be churning out significant quantities of ore, given we all know that it’s quite easy to bypass CCP’s single alpha account restriction, and having Ventures as a hybrid vessel isn’t a terrible thing.

You keep making a mistake here. Orca’s are not Support vessels, they are Mining AND Support. So they fill the specialised mining role as well.

P.S. No, it’s not covered. There is more to ships than just yield, just like there is more to ships than just tank. You asked for a casual link to why people might use Orcas, which I gave tank as a possible answer, while at the same time saying that there are many reasons people might use a ship. You fixated on the single casual link I gave as a be all & end all to my answer, rather than an example of a casual link that you could make.

Objectively untrue.

Non afk miners can use a barge (like they used to and probably still are) and suffer no yield loss. In fact they’ll get a yield buff.

I’m on board with this idea in principle and if its slow (by which i mean generally knocks yield to below a point that afk orca mining is widely unpopular).

This is surely an oxymoron.

This assumes that it’s entirely because of the yield & ignores all the other factors one might fly an Orca over a barge, as well as ignores the Orcas who boost.
And regardless of what you want to say, it does hurt the non AFK Orcas more than it hurts the AFK ones.

No, it’s dead serious. It is possible for a ship to have two specialisations. A specialisation does not have to be at the expense of everything else.

Mining drones already are slow, they are less than half the speed of a heavy drone, so there is no need to change that any further.

And what level is that, is there some magic number which works. And how can we measure that magic number since AFK mining varies in yield depending on where the rocks are and how big the rocks are. What it would achieve however, is mean that you can only walk away for a much shorter time. Long enough to go to the bathroom for example, if you want to risk Trigs landing on grid, but not for hours.

But should such a ship be more popular at a particular job than ships that do specialise at the expense of everything else?

We twist knobs here and there until it feels right.

First, I agree with the first part. Still not relevant to the point, they are specialized in mining. If we saw more boosting BC yes there would be an issue.

However the second part needs citation.
Your specific example is not a general rule. If you don’t have CCP numbers, I’m afraid your opinion is completely irrelevant.

You are lying when you say they are used “overwhelmingly as mining vessels alone.” . You don’t have the real data to back that claim, therefore you claim is void of any reality - it’s just in your head.

“you” think, for no reason. I think the opposite. Therefore, the issue is with you, not with the game.

No, you did not give a citation. You gave your own word. I won’t search for something when you are the one claiming you know it exists. If you know the source is reliable, provide it. Otherwise it’s again just in your head.

Nobody cares. You are making things over simplistic. “it has mining boost so it must not be used for mining”. That’s just, again, BS.

I told you already : the reason why orcas are more used than barge, is because tank. The barges are designed to eat ■■■■ - besides the proc. Since people - and now, NPC are having fun shooting at stitting ducks, people go for the ships that are more likely to survive an encounter - that is, more tank.

This explanation is not backed by any data, so it is exactly as good as yours. It’s just a random explanation that can explain things in a different way than yours, and therefore shows your opinion, without data, is worth nothing.

But you don’t have ccp numbers either. Is your opinion also completely irrelevant?

Is everyone’s opinion completely irrelevant?

No one is allowed to make FANDI threads unless they have data from CCP?

10/14 is overwhelming in my opinion.

And Jufvitte.

So because we don’t agree on the source of the orcas popularity, there cannot be any issue with the game?

With that attitude how does anything get balanced?

We don’t agree on wardecs, therefore nothing should have been changed? People don’t agree on sov warfare. Abyss space. Structure mechanics.

How is any development supposed to get done?

Feel free to reproduce my data. Or produce data that disagrees with mine.

I can’t prove the sky is blue to someone who refuses to look outside and insists every picture i take is fake.

Overwhelmingly for mining alone.

Then that would imply the tank needs nerfing.

Quick hypothesis before Jufvitte day4 - because it’s a weekend and less people are at work, there will be more barges today.

Jufvitte D-Scan Day4:

8x Orcas.
5x Barges (4x Skiff. 1x Proc).
1x Miasmos.

New total:

26x Orcas
23x Barges (5x Cov. 4x Mack. 4x Proc. 10x Skiff)
4x Miasmos
1x Porpoise.

So my Hypothesis was wrong. Maybe people use Orcas more during the weekend because of the increased chances of gankers. The barges used today vs during the week would support that.

First Orca: Supporting Skiffs.

2x Orcas: Not Supporting.

3x Orcas: Not Supporting.

Lone Orca: Not Supporting.

Last Orca wasn’t at a moon.

So the count is now only 3/22 Orcas are used for fleet support.

When an opinion is based on nothing, you are making up datas.
The issue is not about having opinions, the issue is about claiming those opinions are fact.

The thing is, everybody has a different opinion, so by the sheer amount of different opinion, your opinion is worth nothing and is irrelevant in any discussion. “I like tomato sauce pasta - I prefer garlic - I prefer dried fish”

Strawman.

You are MAKING UP a problem.
You claim there is a problem, but you bring no data that says so. Your bring your OPINION, as a possible interpretation of the data ; but your opinion is not FACT and when you claim the problem is a FACT you are lying.

There can be an issue, if you have the real data. Until then, there can’t. Even if you only see orcas, it does not mean that orcas are an issue. It may mean that your overview and dscan are ■■■■■■.

Your FEELING is not fact. Is not a proof. Is not data. Neither is your will.

Irrelevant. You don’t take a picture of the game, just a small part that matches your opinion. Stop claiming you have knowledge of the whole game from a single system.

You don’t have data to reproduce. Your protocole is ■■■■. Your are taking a picture of a white tissue and claim that the sky is white.

You are taking the problem backward : You have an opinion, and try to find which data could go along. This is ■■■■■■■■, because then your data is tainted by your bias. The correct way to do so, it to first accept that you have biases, and realize that unless you ask yourself what is your real goal, for everybody else but for you, you will be a buffoon. Because it’s obvious that you are lying to yourself. And THEN you can start making protocole to define formally metrics, and get those metrics. That’s how research works. Why YOU are doing is ■■■■■■■■ statistic, the same that is used by politics to follow their own agenda.

Empty words.

image

I see a big chested woman wearing a dress. She’s in desperate need of a toilet.

data*. There is no “datas”. Data is plural already. The singular of data is the nowadays barely used “datum”.

but since he is making them up, it’s a plural of a plural !

:facepalm: :face_with_hand_over_mouth: :popcorn:

This is dishonest. My data has not been made up in anyway. Nevyn asked for proof that orcas are more popular than barges, so I’m showing him in the best way i can.

Blame him.

What does this mean? No one is allowed to have an opinion? Everyone’s opinion is automatically irrelevant?

Quote me.

In your opinion…which is apparently irrelevant.

I’m aware of this. The data is the data.

Point me to a 0.5 system where it might not?

I have a hypothesis, or two. And then took the first sytem i was in and took a look.

Feel free to identify another system.

I identified another problem : you attitude.

Except you know your data set is way too small to actually make any pronouncements about EVE wide behaviour.
So what you are doing is ego stroking, not actually achieving anything.

As for the rest, I think we summed it up already in the previous posts as to a good solution “If AFK is a problem”

What proof did you expect me to get then?

Lol what?

You said i was getting dishonest data. Biased you said. So I’m offering a way to make it impartial.

The two of you could have said many posts ago:

It doesn’t matter what data you present I’m not going to pay attention to it.

Maybe next time don’t demand what you know doesn’t exist?

A proof : something that proves.

If you don’t know what it is, sorry but you are out of the discussion.

It does not matter what kind of crap you are gonna dump today, I won’t pay attention to it.

Maybe next time don’t claim something that you have no data to back up ?

Do you know what it is?

But…i did lol!

No, and we told you already why.
The data you presented does not match your claim. Therefore, your claim is baseless. And more, you try to use data as something they are not.

In your opinion.

But apparently that’s irrelevant…