This does seem to be the case.
People like Dracvlad, Ridley Renly Mining Gnosis Rohan, DeMichael, Rrofff - possibly all the same person, but regardless the same agenda. None of them really play the game, they are Grrrr CCP Hathathat CCP. and they devote inordinate amounts of time to generating an imaginary ‘consensus’ that Highsec ganking is bad for the game. It’s pretty weird, it’s definitely obsessive, and it’s absolutely pathetic.
If I was to tell you that I sold all my shares in 2007 would that help you? Anyway off-topic…
Incorrect.
Chhyrfhhtfh.
There are some good numbers on zkill.
Check out Gruzilka for example.
Obviously Ganking isn’t driving this newbro out of the game.
He seems to enjoy the challenge.
Retention of players being one small part of the overall picture.
You don’t need to be in CCP’s data vault to see other things though. Firstly effects on the market. If people are not losing things they wont by buying things. A ship should not be for life and in many cases without ganking it would be. Destruction reduces. Things are worth less. That’s bad.
Secondly if there is no “risk” there would be no meaningful decision in terms of fitting. Everyone could fit for max yield/dps 100% of the time. The uniqueness that is eve gets diluted because miners no longer need to think about being exploded. As a result fitting and ship diversity in high sec takes a tumble. Who would fit a procurer in hs if you cant be ganked? Linked to that is also an increase on the amount of materials making it to market hubs…….further driving down prices.
Other ares of space would likely take a hit to. Why Krab in null in relative safety when you can make just a little less in absolute safety?
These are all things we can see with knowledge of game mechanics. So not “ALL” information is being held by CCP in some conspiracy against players. While i accept we will never know the whole picture…………we know enough to see that the consequences of no ganking would be, put frankly, game breaking.
I’ve elucidated on this topic in (yet) another ganking thread, but feel it’s worth pointing to here. Not in hope that it will settle the endless bickering (forum PvP is a thing after all), but more so that everyone else can read, acknowledge and move on.
Hisec ganking has always been a part of eve online. Every player that has ever played the game has done so under the ‘duress’ of hisec ganking.
Unless one wishes to contend that an MMO lasting 18+ years, with multiple world records and widely-held respect for technology has in any way failed to meet its full potential, I think we can all agree that the effect hisec ganking has had on the game cannot be said to be negative.
True, but the consequences curtailing that behavior were FAR more serious in years past. While I think the mechanic should remain, it’s past time for CCP to think about how they can make those decisions sting for players who engage in this unlawful behavior. Perhaps Concord standings should drop much faster and be much harder to repair…not sure where the answer lies, but the balance in game has shifted too much and this needs to be redressed.
How so?
Wormholes make repairing security status an afterthought today. Huge reserves of ISK make creating throw-away ships an afterthought today. Concord and high-sec space was created before these started to impact the ganker mentality. CCP needs to rework the system, the balance is skewed.
There is something I would like to ask you, in all sincerity, because it is important for me to understand this. I see most gankers and ganker aligned posters push this all or nothing viewpoint that people want to stop hisec ganking. Why do it?
I have been in contact with a lot of people who have been ganked and who have opposed ganking and I can count on one hand the number of people who wanted to end ganking in hisec.
On the other side I see such posts as yours as being positioning posts as in drawing a line for any adjustment to ganking coined with the concept that ganking will be ended in hisec by CCP which is never going to happen. For example I was told by many gankers that the removal of unlimited bumping would destroy ganking, yet it did not and what I thought would happen did happen. I think most gankers and ganker aligned posters are protecting their advantages, which I have to say is one of my bias, but based totally on the persistent personal attacks directed me and more importantly the misinformation on what I say when I am merely looking at balancing.
Scipio uses the one more nerf attack on me quite often… Because he realises that I am not anti-ganking as such. But still that is unfair too, games are always being balanced.
Almost all Eve players are not interested in absolute safety as far as I can see.
This I agree with. On the other side it is bad if such choices made no difference which was certainly the case after the -25% ROF penalty was removed from destroyers. I chose a ship and fit it to be hard to gank and I want the choice and ability to contest my ability to mine in hisec against excessively multi-boxing gankers. Where is the line drawn?
@Nico_Christened posted an interesting point which is where I am pretty focussed which is why I look at consequences that create player content, such as forcing the gankers to have more structures to enable them to carry this out. This would of course limit the number that would bother to do this, but isn’t this also true of hisec indy now with the addition of quantum cores, why are gankers immune to impacts like this. @Scipio_Artelius they had a more serious perceived impact in the past.
Anyway, I am pretty bored with this whole subject and more so idiotic overstatements being thrown at people like me. That is not an attack on you personally but just the way Eve forum posters behave, it also includes the concept that the way I post hurts their feelings.
Gankers play in highsec not wormholes. If they wanted to repair their sec status, low sec tags are far more convenient, but that also isn’t of interest to highsec gankers. They wear -10 as a badge of honour.
Can you show anything that suggests these impact ganker mentality at all?
They seem kind of irrelevant. The dedicated gankers make more ISK from ganking than they consume. They don’t care what ships costs, and several of them run their own industry too,
Wormholes offer access to null sec as well as low sec for grinding rep the old school way though. And, they provide added system access to areas that would have been otherwise unreachable with very low security status. This was unforeseeable when the rules governing high security status were put into place. CCP needs to stop ignoring this and redraw consequences and boundaries (similarly when they reworked corporate warfare prohibiting dec’ing certain corps from warfare).
Ganker mentality isn’t something we really need to overthink. It’s about the lawlz and griefing other players to most of them moreover anything else. I’m talking about poor sobs in industrial and mining vessels trying to make a living in high security space. These small timers are the players Concord mechanics are failing. Because cost isn’t a factor, profits don’t matter as much either. Again, I’m not talking about freighter kills here.
But why? How does grinding sec status keep sec status at -10?
I could understand if you’d pointed out that:
But wormholes make ganking less consequential? Doesn’t seem to align with how gankers operate.
You’ve lost me on this one. I used to play at around -8 constantly from low sec pvp. What parts of the game couldn’t be reached with a low sec status?
Apart from those that are. There are repeated calls for a safe zone from players. It’s even been called for in this thread by some.
I know I’m going to regret this but its honestly where my mind goes ………facism…….Overton window etc. Any extreme position needs to made less extreme but reframing the window to move it closer and closer allowing those extreme arguments more weight.
Eve players are not stupid. Many players understand that calling for ganking to be stopped wont work. But what they can do is call for nerf after nerf after nerf which cumulatively either make ganking so difficult the play style erodes…….or ganking is portrayed as such a negative thing in the game a discussion about stopping it gets traction.
Extreme events don’t just happen. They are always preceded by host of seemingly insignificant changes disguised as something they are not in order to pave they way.
That’s why i think its important to resist calls for changes to ganking unless they have been properly thought through and provide a benefit. And nothing in this thread satisfies that threshold for me.
Nothing you’ve said there actually speaks to the amount of ganking going on. I can certainly say from experience that when I was starting out, ganks were a lot more frequent than today. If you were undocking in any populous mission hub, there was a fair chance of you being locked up. Literally everyone had instawarps for every station they used in hisec. I don’t even have one for my freighter pilot in Jita these days.
Another couple of points against your suggestion that ganking is worse now than ever before: bumping is no longer an indefinite prison term for your orca / freighter. Also, the inability to be permanently wardecced has made hisec life immeasurably safer, along with tether and citadels. If you never experienced hisec without these things, you have no idea how much safer it is! I was literally speechless the first time I got free (!!!) repair while in space. Insanity.
What you are doing here is adding in false balances. What does free repair have to do with ganking, and while gankers and war deckers are often of the same mind they are different ways of blowing up things, one legal and the other not at least within Empire space. War decs were limited because they had a major impact on player retention, which is why some players are so defensive about ganking, but wars still go on, at least until war deckers ahve removed almost all the structures in hisec…
It depends, in 2009 and 2010 there was less ganking than now imo.
Also the sheer number of Tornado gankers in recent years dwarfed anything I saw previously.
Thanks for the honesty, that is really a challenge because the bumping affect which many gankers said would kill ganking did not do so. However the weaker and less adaptable gankers gave up, many play styles have been eroded over time so I get the fear here.
Anyway o7
Hmm. I did some cursory looking in zkill, looking only at catalyst kills during January in The Forge, there were only a few thousand in '08/'09, then up to 64k in 2013, and down to 14k this year. So it seems, albeit from only a brief flick, to correlate with player count.
Of course, this is hardly conclusive or forensic in any way! There’s probably 1000 things I’m not counting, but I’m at work and don’t care to do any kind of deep dive into the numbers. Just thought it would be an interesting comment…
It is an interesting comment. However many gankers stopped feeding Zkill, so bear that in mind.
I literally do not know any gankers who grind security status. Not one.
True, though I’d similarly assume a relatively comparable number of victims would still be linked to zkill, so there may not be that much of an overall difference in reporting.
Calling all spreadsheet nerds! Let’s have some deep dive statistical analysis here, stat.