Main AFK cloaky thread

[ISD_Buldath]

231 posts merged from a Thread in GD.

[Keno_Skir]

Remove Local.

[Hefalumps]

@AtramLolipop

and the CSM continue to ignore it.

Because they’re run by goons.

[Cleanse_Serce]

@Black_Pedro

Go back to the drawing board and come up with a better idea to make hunting nullsec PvErs better than “nerf cloaks”. For each idea, ask yourself, “would this make nullsec ratting/mining safer?” If the answer is yes, crumple that sheet of paper up, toss it in the bin, and start again.

What disturbs me the most actually from haters like you is that you seem WAY, WAYYY, WAYYYYY more interesting about psychologicly threatening the “renters” or “PvErs” just for the sake of it.

I ask you the same question you asked to me : what is the deficit of a cloaking device timer, that asks the player to push it again after a certain amount of time (my idea was 30mn / 1hour, but it’s up to CCP) if the true purpose of cloaking in that mater were to ACTUALLY hunting, and not “psychologicly threatening” the “renters” or “PvErs” ? Hum ?

I answer it for you all haters : none.

That’s why it’s bothering you.

You’re just pissed off that players can feel safe in a system where they should not if they’re not fighting for this safety.
I quite understand it.
Except that if you want to threat a place, you attack it, you don’t throw afk-cloakies in it just to “psychologicly threaten” the inhabitants.

I’ve heard that a guy have put 20 toons in this just because they were payed to do it.
I doubt this guy can have 20x2 eyes on what’s happening, and i bet he’s just doing it for the ISK it’ gives him.
Just another renter hum ?
Afterall, he chose the most disguised way to be one.

@Teckos_Pech

It will give us more interesting game play…lots of people won’t like it, but hey who cares.

Well, someone told me in this very thread that i was being selfish thinking about only from a PvEers side, which, in my point of view, i did not, but whatever.
I can see in your answer that you too, are being selfish : “We don’t care if people don’t like it, as long as we can hunt freely, and piss PvEers off”.

Right.

[zluq_zabaa]

@Black_Pedro

AFK cloakers would go away and nullsec bots/grinders would be at even less risk than they already are.

But that’s the whole point of all the anti-cloakers. They want to grind and they’re not happy with any risk, current or future, that could interrupt them in filling their pockets.

It’s pretty obvious that these anti-cloaking threads are just a flare. While really grinding is still far too safe, they try to push this unrealistic anti-cloaking agenda so that other people focus on this instead of ideas of how to make grinding less safe.

I think in Null and in Low, in every Anom and Sig, should always be NPC tackle. This entire stupid mechanic of staying aligned and warping out as soon as any neutral appears in local is turning the idea of “undock = risk” into a joke. Yes, you catch the lazy or afk ones, but I think that’s not a fair mechanic considering that flying into enemy territory and looking for fights is way more effort than undocking to rat.

A ratter there should always encounter tackle by NPCs and should need to deal with it. This greatly enhances their need to take risk or to actually give fights when they undock to profit from PvE.

AFK cloaking as a psychological weapon is only really necessary, because CCP has not managed to create decent risk for player vs player encounters. If they changed that, for instance with tackling NPCs, one could talk about AFK cloaking again. Not before. There may be other, better ways to enforce the “undock = risk” rule, but I think NPC tackle still offers some ways to escape (which is okay), while getting rid of this no-brainer of staying aligned.

[Black_Pedro]

@Cleanse_Serce

I ask you the same question you asked to me : what is the deficit of a cloaking device timer, that asks the player to push it again after a certain amount of time (my idea was 30mn / 1hour, but it’s up to CCP) if the true purpose of cloaking in that mater were to ACTUALLY hunting, and not “psychologicly threatening” the “renters” or “PvErs” ? Hum ?

It prevents you from walking away from your computer for more than 30 minutes if you cannot get to safety.

Further, it removes a tool for countering an opponent who is relying on perfect and free intel of local chat to evade you. How can you erode their confidence in the accuracy of local if you are unable to leave your name in local chat for more than half an hour? That’s kinda the whole point of AFK cloaking in someone’s space.

Why should cloaks nerfed so that local can be made even a stronger defensive intel tool? Both those outcomes seem to me to be the exact opposite of what the game needs. Cloaks enable content, while the unintended ability local gives to evade conflict kills content.

I get why you want CCP to change the rules of the game so you are safer, but what I don’t get is why you think they would do so now, after like a decade of ignoring the complainers? It’s not ideal game play, but it is way, way better than buffing the already oppressive power of local chat to enable evasion.

Some day I expect it will change, but when it does it will come with some compensatory changes to the infallible and free warning system that is local chat for balance.

[Cleanse_Serce]

@Black_Pedro

I get why you want CCP to change the rules of the game so you are safer, but what I don’t get is why you think they would do so now, after like a decade of ignoring the complainers? It’s not ideal game play, but it is way, way better than buffing the already oppressive power of local chat to enable evasion.

Because they changed Sov Mecanics, after years of ignored complaints ?
Because they changed Jump mecanics after years of ignored complaints ?
And i could go on and on.

This will change, one way or the other.
I said that already, just a matter of time and choosing from CCP.
And i doubt that the selected change will be the removal of Local : it would strip one of Wormholes specific attribute.
May be a delayed local ?
I say why not.

[Mevatla_Vekraspek]

Ah, this is the “we are too lazy to organise response fleets therefore we want the devs to nerf cloacking” thread, cute.

[Teckos_Pech]

@Jonah_Gravenstein

Schrodinger’s cloaker.

May or may not be afk, an inderminate state of being until something happens to finalise it, that something often taking the form of a hot drop.

The most feared player in all of EVE. Makes every player’s sphincter clench up.

[Teckos_Pech]

No bet, ISD likes this thread as it keeps all the stupid (regarding cloaks) in one place.

[Teckos_Pech]

@Cleanse_Serce

This will change, one way or the other.

Yes, if they ever get around to implementing the OA.

@Cleanse_Serce

And i doubt that the selected change will be the removal of Local : it would strip one of Wormholes specific attribute.

Wormholes still have local.

@Cleanse_Serce

May be a delayed local ?

You mean like wormholes…do you actually play the game?

[z0rberg]

@AtramLolipop

many players

There are literally dozens of you. DOZENS! Sod off, no one cares.

[zluq_zabaa]

@Cleanse_Serce

what is the deficit of a cloaking device timer, that asks the player to push it again after a certain amount of time (my idea was 30mn / 1hour, but it’s up to CCP) if the true purpose of cloaking in that mater were to ACTUALLY hunting, and not “psychologicly threatening” the “renters” or “PvErs” ? Hum ?

1. It limits the options for people to move supers and titans around the map without getting caught.

2. The things @Black_Pedro mentioned about cloaking in relation to player visibility in local chat.

3. It puts a limit to setting up eloborate traps in all areas of space, including wormholes.

4. Hunting certainly has a psychological component, from both sides. The hunted can play the psychological game of staying docked in a station or structure. Some of them even log out temporarily, trying to demotivate hunters. Or leave the game and come back years later.

5. Hunters on the other hand, have the option to cloak up and give you a choice: will you let fear of possible PVP determine your actions in the game or will you suck it up, prepare for war and go on with your business?

@Cleanse_Serce

This will change, one way or the other.

First they introduce ways to stop people from instantaneously warping out of Anoms/Sigs and docking once a neutral enters system.

Then they introduce frigate-sized Combat Recons (the ones not visible on d-scan).

Then they introduce Observatory Arrays.

Then delayed local.

And by then they’ll look again at the complaints of a few players about “afk cloaking” and decide again, that it is working as intended.

[Tradari]

is there any ruling for mass cloak camping IE a whole region or a good part if a constellation. I’m all for hot dropping and countering that but countering a random fleet that can drop anywhere in a region just because a player has cash and can afford 30 plus accounts i think takes the mick. its not possible to counter a hot drop over that many systems and frankly its pay to win.

[zluq_zabaa]

@Tradari

is there any ruling for mass cloak camping IE a whole region or a good part if a constellation. I’m all for hot dropping and countering that but countering a random fleet that can drop anywhere in a region just because a player has cash and can afford 30 plus accounts i think takes the mick. its not possible to counter a hot drop over that many systems and frankly its pay to win.

If you use an entire region for ratting, you better have the ability to counter drops or other forms of PVP in each of those systems. In your example, one guy has 30 plus accounts, presumeably all cyno-fit cloakies. All this does is to force you into not avoiding cloaky camping by changing into another system. You have to face it, suck it up and fight for what is yours. The other effect is has is to be less predictable without having to create a new cyno-tackle for each operation.

Seriously, 30+ accounts are only used by or against really large groups. It’s a strategic challenge that needs to be faced by the Coalition as such. If I can conclude that you are part of a large group, the leaders will provide you with answers. If they are good leaders, they’ll create defensive fleets on standby to support ratters. If they’re not doing that, it’s their problem, not the fault of the game.
(You may think about joining groups that use their ressources more wisely though.)

[Daichi_Yamato]

There is a ruling. It’s fine.

When you’re in null, you’re expected to be under constant threat. So it doesn’t even matter if every single null sec system is camped by the same guy. That is the nature of null sec. High rewards, but high risk as well.

What went wrong was everyone started using local to tell the exact moment a bad guy entered the system. This was not intended and is ‘broken’. To counter local, ccp let people afk cloak. An equally ‘broken’ tactic that balances the power of local and brings back a degree of uncertainty that is absolutely necessary to keep null sec rewards in check (arguably failing at this point).

So if you think someone afk cloaking all over the place is cause for concern, think about the wide spread abuse of local. The much bigger problem.

[Duo_Roman]

The MAIN AFK CLOAKY THREAD: where carebear’s tears and botter’s hopes go to die.
This thread keeps amusing me.

[Cleanse_Serce]

@Teckos_Pech

May be a delayed local ?

You mean like wormholes…do you actually play the game?

Wormholes has NO local at all.
It is not DELAYED.

No local means : No character will ever be displayed in the chat member list, unless he speaks in it.
Delayed local means : No character will be displayed in the chat member list before a certain amount of time (up to CCP to set it) after he enters the said system by one way or the other : logging in / jumping in through a gate or WH or Cyno, or whatever, or if he speaks in it.

At least, this is how i understand it.

If this whole time you thought about no Local chat at all in which people could speak : it will never happen.

[Wander_Prian]

Yes, wormholes DO have local and yes it is in delayed-mode, meaning, you won’t show in local UNLESS you talk in local.

If there was no local at all, you wouldn’t be able to talk in the channel.

Get your facts straight before you start suggesting changes.

[Mike_Voidstar]

Ya’ll are getting caught up in semantics.

When the whiners cry about local, they mean the local roster, not the chat channel itself.

The current setup of wormhole space is called Delayed, and there is no place where local does not exist. Effectively it may as well not exist in wormholes as few ever speak in the channel.