Main AFK cloaky thread

[Doctor_Biologist]

#1 Yes, I do think actually.

#2 No, it is not 100% safe for the cloaky camper to be undocked. I’ve killed many at camps when they tried to move, including nullified T3s. You need to be a good de-cloaker. Git gud.

#3 Nobody puts a cloaky camper in every system. Which of us doesn’t think? It’s almost always one guy, RARELY it’s 2-3 alts, and when it’s more than that it’s always because of a war with a neighboring null entity (in which case you go evict them from their space). Can’t? Then what are you doing in null sec.

#4 The cloaky camper poses no risk if you have a response fleet. Can’t field a response fleet? Then what the ■■■■ are you doing in null sec. All of the major null groups have capitals on standby for exactly this.

#5 “CCP has stated” is a weak argument that holds no water. CCP once stated that they were going to remove the old map. CCP once stated that having capitals with no limit on the number of jumps they could do was a great thing. CCP once stated that Titans wouldn’t be spammed because they are too expensive. Get your head out of your ass.

#6 The risk of a cloaky camper comes at the time of the hot drop. They have to field ships in order to kill miners, ratters, or whatever via a Blops or Titan bridge. As I mentioned before - you should have a response fleet to deal with that eventuality. Can’t? Then again, what the ■■■■ are you doing in null sec.

[Hefalumps]

@Doctor_Biologist

#3 Nobody puts a cloaky camper in every system. Which of us doesn’t think?

It’s happening to my alliance right now. So, you’re the one who doesn’t think.

@Doctor_Biologist

#4 The cloaky camper poses no risk if you have a response fleet.

Really? So, you know what’s on the other side of the cyno before they light it? What CCP functionality allows that?

@Doctor_Biologist

#6 The risk of a cloaky camper comes at the time of the hot drop. They have to field ships in order to kill miners, ratters, or whatever via a Blops or Titan bridge. As I mentioned before - you should have a response fleet to deal with that eventuality.

At which point, they aren’t a cloaky camper, anymore. But they can, while AFK, create this risk 23.75.x7, most of which they aren’t around.

All that we’re asking is that this not be possible.

[Doctor_Biologist]

It’s happening to my alliance right now. So, you’re the one who doesn’t think.

Ah, so now the salt comes out. All makes sense now. Get rekt scrub.

[zluq_zabaa]

@Hefalumps

CCP has stated that anyone affecting the game should be at their keyboards, and that’s their reason for banning due to botting. Yet, they allow people be logged in and cloaked for 23 hours and 45 minutes per day, most of which the person in question is nowhere near their keyboard, and yet there is no way to detect whether they are there are not.

With the same argument you could ask CCP to stop people going AFK in stations or Citadels.
Won’t happen.

@Hefalumps I think your issue is that you let cloaky camping become psychological warfare, because you take a too defensive approach to it. Try to take a PVP approach. Let them drop you. Note the cyno chars, note who drops. Look out for their out-cynos. Next time, you run locator agents. You prepare a trap and that’s it.

Don’t see it as something bad, just see it as an opportunity to get content in your own space. You have almost all the advantages. Use them. You’re far better off than the attackers, who won’t make any ISK and will have to take way more risk. Chances are, once you fight back, you’ll have far less issues.

If you really don’t like the PVP aspect of the game… and I mean to say that without any mockery or insult, it’s probably better to look for a different game. There will always be PVP in EVE and you have to decide if you want to stay a victim all the time or if you fight back. It’s really as simple as that.

[Doctor_Biologist]

A mod should really re-title this thread “salty whiners complain when they get camped” because that’s legit the only purpose of this thread atm.

[The_Dunning_Kruger]

@Doctor_Biologist

A mod should really re-title this thread “salty whiners complain when they get camped” because that’s legit the only purpose of this thread atm.

The purpose of this thread is being a trashcan so their whining doesn’t clutter up the rest of the forums. Here is the former incarnation.

[Merin_Ryskin]

@Hefalumps

All that we’re asking is that this not be possible.

Yes, we know you’re asking for greater safety for your farming operations. But you haven’t established why you should have this safety, other than the fact that you want to make more ISK.

[Teckos_Pech]

Sits back and basks in the glory of posting 1 response that elicits 34 additional responses.

[Teckos_Pech]

@Black_Pedro

…what with the delay taking a gate or a wormhole, means that anyone paying attention has sufficient time to retreat to safety with 100% certitude.

Indeed. The “delay” in NS is on the side of the ratter. And if one adds on the benefit of an intel channel and local this benefit means one can scoot to safety well before a hostile is 3 jumps out.

But oooohhhhh noooooo…want to change things up a bit means “free kills”…spoken by the one person who has never participated in PvP as an aggressor and who has never used a cloaking ship to hunt. Ever.

I on the other hand have ratted, mined, built stuff, run POS farms, and also engaged in PvP and done some cloaky hunting. Yes…let’s listen to the guy who have steadfastly refused to engage in all aspects of the game on things he has never ever engaged in and has indicated he’ll never ever engage in. After all, he refuses to be “someone else’s content”.

[Teckos_Pech]

@Black_Pedro

And fair enough. Who wouldn’t want to use such a powerful proximity sensor for defensive purposes? The thing is though, is that power was never intended - local chat was suppose to be a social communications tool, not an in-game intel tool.

Exactly this.

We have now had this confirmed by Devs, that local was never intended to be used this way. Clearly players figured it out right quick and used it that way, but still this was never the initial intent.

@zluq_zabaa

Nagging about cloaky camping on the Forum is certainly safer.

Hah!

@Hefalumps

LOL… Yes, because you can jump into local and warp directly to where the cloaky camper is, right?

Oh FFS…yes, because local does not give yo advanced warning does it.

@Black_Pedro

Not only aren’t the doing anything to you, they aren’t earning a single ISK while cloaked. It just like someone staying docked. Just staying docked should be safe, right?

You can actually make ISK while docked…as every station trader will tell you.

@Doctor_Biologist

#5 “CCP has stated” is a weak argument that holds no water. CCP once stated that they were going to remove the old map. CCP once stated that having capitals with no limit on the number of jumps they could do was a great thing. CCP once stated that Titans wouldn’t be spammed because they are too expensive. Get your head out of your ass.

I can affect the game while not even logged in. I can set up buy and sell orders then log off. What should we do about this?

[Black_Pedro]

@Teckos_Pech

#5 “CCP has stated” is a weak argument that holds no water. CCP once stated that they were going to remove the old map. CCP once stated that having capitals with no limit on the number of jumps they could do was a great thing. CCP once stated that Titans wouldn’t be spammed because they are too expensive. Get your head out of your ass.

I can affect the game while not even logged in. I can set up buy and sell orders then log off. What should we do about this?

I’m not even sure they ever stated this and I am pretty sure this is just a willful misinterpretation by those looking to justify why CCP should patch out AFK cloaking. CCP has indicated that the don’t like passive gameplay generating resources in the game and have indeed nerfed such things in the past (research agents, moon mining, etc.). But AFK cloaking generates no resources into the economy just like market orders do not spawn anything new into the economy. It literally is just leaving a name in local.

All sorts of gameplay and interactions goes on while people aren’t logged in or at the keyboard - that’s part of the persistent virtual universe thing. The problems only arise when there is truly passive resource generation which is easily scaled up massively with alts or easy for the apex power to control. Look at PI - it’s pretty passive and is one of the few things CCP felt they needed to deny Alpha clones. To their credit, the did also deny alpha clones cloaks to at least keep some cost on those who wish to use AFK cloaking as a intel-distruption tactic.

Things that generate resources out of nothing are the most dangerous and important to balance in a virtual economy. AFK Cloaking does nothing directly while market trading actually consumes resources via taxes and fees. Whereas making nullsec ratting and mining safer by buffing the power of local would have a direct effect on the economy so it isn’t hard to see why CCP isn’t especially keen on removing the “passive” gameplay of AFK cloaking without having something more active gameplay ready to replace it.

[Hefalumps]

@zluq_zabaa

With the same argument you could ask CCP to stop people going AFK in stations or Citadels.
Won’t happen.

Why? I can do something about someone in a citadel. I don’t live where there are stations.

@zluq_zabaa

I think your issue is that you let cloaky camping become psychological warfare, because you take a too defensive approach to it. Try to take a PVP approach. Let them drop you. Note the cyno chars, note who drops. Look out for their out-cynos. Next time, you run locator agents. You prepare a trap and that’s it.

Oh, so you can tell what’s on the other side of the cyno and manage that risk?

@zluq_zabaa

You’re far better off than the attackers, who won’t make any ISK and will have to take way more risk. Chances are, once you fight back, you’ll have far less issues.

Unless, of course, they drop, we drop, and they win. Then it gets worse.

@zluq_zabaa

If you really don’t like the PVP aspect of the game… and I mean to say that without any mockery or insult, it’s probably better to look for a different game.

I’m fine with PvP. I’m fine with people being cloaky. It’s the 24x7 aspect that is wrong. You should be required to be at your keyboard.

If anyone else goes afk, they’re likely to be blown up. I just want the same for cloakies.

[Hefalumps]

@Doctor_Biologist

A mod should really re-title this thread “salty whiners complain when they get camped” because that’s legit the only purpose of this thread atm.

Actually, all posts like this should be sent to a thread “asshole cloaky campers want to be 100% safe in space when they go to work.”

[Hefalumps]

@Merin_Ryskin

Yes, we know you’re asking for greater safety for your farming operations.

No, I’m asking for cloaky campers to not be 100% safe when undocked afk for hours at a time.

[Hefalumps]

@Doctor_Biologist

Ah, so now the salt comes out. All makes sense now. Get rekt scrub.

Go do yourself, goonscum.

[The_Dunning_Kruger]

[Daichi_Yamato]

@Hefalumps

I don’t live where there are stations

So we’ll just pretend they don’t exist?

Honestly, it’s tough ■■■■ if you don’t like the 24/7 bit. You are meant to be under threat 24/7 in null. You aren’t meant to know whether the system is clear or not. Neither is the cloaker for that matter.

If you don’t like it. Get out. It really is that simple.

[zluq_zabaa]

@Hefalumps

Why? I can do something about someone in a citadel. I don’t live where there are stations.

This sounds as if you thought the rules were made specifically for you. They weren’t.

You can also do something against cloaky camping. Camp the gates, use SB Battleships, scan down and attack their Bridge Blops or Titans, attack them where they live, so they don’t have the time to camp you.

If you want to play the sitting duck, play the sitting duck. Don’t blame others for your choice.

@Hefalumps

Oh, so you can tell what’s on the other side of the cyno and manage that risk?

Yes, in fact you can, given that you’re willing to do the work. Calculate cyno-range, check killboards, run locator agents, have your alliance set up eyes to track movements of hostiles.

@Hefalumps

Unless, of course, they drop, we drop, and they win. Then it gets worse.

You have the advantage of the home turf, which means you should mostly be able to separate bait from casual drops. If you can’t out-escalate a random hotdrop, you’re anyway just tolerated in this space, you don’t own it.

@Hefalumps

I’m fine with PvP. I’m fine with people being cloaky. It’s the 24x7 aspect that is wrong. You should be required to be at your keyboard.

No one is PVPing while afk, apart from market PVP and Zarvox in this one video. The cloaky camper can’t influence anything while being cloaked. The only thing they can do is watching their surroundings and reading local chat. They can do far less than someone who is docked. Also you don’t know wether or not they are at the keyboard - you simply don’t know. No one is required to permanently do something with every account that is logged in.

@Hefalumps

If anyone else goes afk, they’re likely to be blown up. I just want the same for cloakies.

Only if they are uncloaked in space, where they could potentially source income while afk. Asking the same for cloakies defeats any purpose for the cloak.

Come on, let’s just face it. You don’t like the feeling that someone could or could not drop on you, while you are mining or running anoms. I understand that, it creates stress. That’s why I suggested that you should either take it with a warrior mentality and not just play the sitting duck or go to live in an area of space in which you can chill and semi-afk source some income. The decision is yours. The game does not owe you safety while you fill your pockets. It’s a fundamental part of the game to fight about others possibilities to have an income, especially if it is a high-end income.

Fight back and prevail or don’t and feel the consequence or leave to where there is no competition.

[Hefalumps]

@Daichi_Yamato

You are meant to be under threat 24/7 in null.

I am also meant to be able to respond to risks and threats.

@zluq_zabaa

This sounds as if you thought the rules were made specifically for you

They were made with the idea that EVERYONE is at risk when they are undocked. They aren’t.

@zluq_zabaa

No one is PVPing while afk, apart from market PVP and Zarvox in this one video. The cloaky camper can’t influence anything while being cloaked.

I cannot believe there are this many people that are this dumb on these forums.

Unless you can tell when they are away and when they aren’t, then your statement is the dumbest thing on these boards.

@zluq_zabaa

Only if they are uncloaked in space, where they could potentially source income while afk. Asking the same for cloakies defeats any purpose for the cloak.

They do that while cloaked. It’s called “skill point mining.”

The purpose of the cloak is to participate in the game while being undetected. Notice the words, “PARTICIPATE IN THE GAME.” If you’re not at your keyboard, you’re not supposed to be participating. Which means that cloaks should have a cycle time which has a cooldown and manual reactivation just like the MJD.

[Hefalumps]

@zluq_zabaa

Come on, let’s just face it. You don’t like the feeling that someone could or could not drop on you, while you are mining or running anoms.

No, I don’t like the fact that someone can get up in the morning, log in, cloak up, and appear to be participating in the game while they’re at work, and continue to appear to be doing so after they go to sleep at night until downtime… at which time they get up, log in, cloak up, and do it again.