That is fine. Docking is a means of evasion. What is not acceptable is the docked player knowing, with 100% accuracy, when the threat has passed and it’s safe to resume farming (until the 100% accurate warning that a threat has appeared and it’s time to dock again). If you want 100% safety by docking you should be forced to stay docked 23/7 and never be able to do anything productive.
Unpopular but real: The “local” in docked ships should be station only.
Okay…again since you apparently can’t comprehend.
You are trying to eat your cake and have it too…
On one hand you have claimed that they are “marginalizing” risk. Yet that they are redirecting PvP. You can’t have both.
Sure you can.
You have one hunter and a choice of targets. You can shift the hunters preference of targets without reducing the potential PvP of the game. In a way this is your argument about how to deal with cloakers by always being on comms, in fleet, etc… so that the hunter simply never becomes active.
The difference is that I don’t accept that it’s OK for the hunter himself to get a free pass on risk.
But you don’t want to reduce risk. You want CPP to do it for you. If you reduced PvP by playing smart then fine. Good for you. Asking CPP for a nerf so you can play “dumber” than without the nerf you are just being lazy.
I’m fine doing it myself, if there is a path to do so.
So long as cloaks remain capable of rendering their ship 100% safe for indefinite time, then there is no path to do so.
But you know this, and aren’t really interested in honest discussion.
There are plenty of ways to reduce risk. These methods have been discussed at length in this thread several times. This is the problem. You are not willing to do what is necessary to reduce risk.
so if you are undocked you can see normal local? not sure that would change anything
Docked lookouts which is another version of free intel.
Stop lying
The docked lookouts would just change to be cloaked lockouts nothing would change
2003-06-13 - BY CCP CAPSLOCK - EVE PATCH-NOTES
- Modified “local channel” concept, so now all the stations within the solarsystem are in the same channel as the solarsystem. Should make local a bit more usable
You don’t get spin credit for undocked ships.
What’s your point?
No one is allowed to get friends anymore?
The point is that you are lying about doing PvP yourself. You openly admit that you hate PvP and refuse to participate in it. You are not advocating changes that will get you more PvP fights as you often claim, you are simply trying to minimize the part of the game that you hate.
That same argument would warrant doing away with D-Scan and combat probes.
Also, considering that local is useful to the vast majority of people who play in null, arguments against it sound suspiciously like an appeal to privilege. You want the game to change specifically to make a particular play style easier – ironically, the same criticism being offered against those complaining about cloaky camping. Let w-space be w-space and null be null. No need to make them the same thing.
Not in the slightest. It’s pretty ignorant to say that in fact.
Local gives you instant-real time infallible intel. People appear in local before they even load the system. They also cannot hide from local. Local also merely needs to be open to work.
You can hide from both probes and d-scan. D-scan has limited range. Probes are delayed. Both show empty ships. Both can be countered, not only by cloaks, but by players fitting or behaving a certain way. Neither probes nor d-scan can detect a player before they fully enter the system. Both probes and d-scan must be manually activated.
Worm holes =/= null without local. Different structure mechanics. Different inter system travel. Different system effects. Different ship restrictions. Only recently got moon mining.
Have you not had your coffee?
And not having local makes it just as easy to hide from attackers as it is for attackers to hide from you. It’s just a sub-set of players in null are painfully dumb and feel entitled to ‘mad ticks’.
Right when the csm and ccp are complaining about how ridiculously powerful null economy is now. Hmmm 
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You cannot hide indefinitely from probes and d-scan, unless you’re… well… cloaked. 
You say that this can be countered by players “behaving a certain way.” But if a player is warping around to avoid detection, for example, clearly they’re not AFK. The point of this discussion is AFK cloaking, not cloaking itself.
Cloaks should only run for X amount of time before they need to be manually reactived. Easy solution to satisfy both sides. Campers can still camp, and easily avoid being scanned down, as long as they’re actively playing the game. If they’re not actively playing the game, there’s no reason others should not be able to hunt them down. Your own arguments support this. All the examples you give involve a player actively doing something. That’s the way things SHOULD be. Avoiding detection should involve effort. If you want to talk about entitlement, what entitles a cloaky camper to perpetual safety in null sec?
I personally have nothing against hindering someone’s play style. But you should be required to be actively manning things, or else they should have options to counter your tactic. That goes for anything. It has nothing to do with entitlement.
Exactly. Thanks for demonstrating the differences between local and probes (still no coffee huh?).
Nope. There’s that ignorance again.
You shouldn’t know whether another player is active or not. Because it tells you whether the system is safe or not.
There’s nothing wrong with a player sitting cloaked in a system, afk or otherwise. You just think there is a problem because it makes you unsure whether you’re safe or not. The problem is in fact you. You somehow live in null yet don’t understand you’re not meant to know if you’re safe or not.
Which is exactly why the devs allow afk cloaking to happen, because it’s the only way to create any uncertainty for null ratters using local as intel (a purpose it was not meant to be used for).
That’s the way things SHOULD be. Avoiding detection should involve effort.
I personally have nothing against hindering someone’s play style. But you should be required to be actively manning things, or else they should have options to counter your tactic. That goes for anything. It has nothing to do with entitlement
Right back at you. Detecting something should take more effort than glancing at a chat channel. There should be a way to counter local. There should be a way to enter system and, with some skill or effort, approach prey without being highlighted to everyone in system.
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