Main AFK cloaky thread

(Maekchu) #4091

But you do have the same right. If we look at cruiser ratting since I don’t really have much experience with carrier ratting, then you actually have more rights, since you are the ones deciding when you want to take an engagement and when you want to be safe.

You said, you understood my point and then proceed to continue in your old spirit.

We need to find a balance to this issue, not a “fix” that bolsters the side that already has all the advantages.

(boernl) #4092

im not starting that discussion we already spendet time on that yesterday
that comment was meant for @Merin_Ryskin sicne he is clearly stating that we already have low risk nulsec well i fully disagree with that

(Maekchu) #4093

I’m just contesting your point where you say that PvP’ers have “more rights”. The reality is, at least for sub cap ratting, that it’s the ratter that have all the power in deciding when to engage, as long as he keeps aligned and at the keyboard.

(boernl) #4094

that i agree on
only not every miner is making abscene amounts of isk in nulsec with near-zero risk
and i hell i aint tryign to form nulsec into highsec

i just started this with do some about the cloaky camper
and if there will be a afk timer in general ( for all ppl ) that is already good since that forces ppl to actualy do something and not just have alts hanging somewhere being useless except to disrupt local

(Mala Zvitorepka) #4095

As it stands, cloak is the ultimate invulnerability button, and I believe it shouldn’t be - I believe everyone should be vulnerable, anywhere. You can destroy the player owned stations to force people to undock or die. It won’t be done in a day, but anything but NPC stations can die. It is completely impossible to do anything against a cloaked ship in a SS, no matter how long you search for it - space is just that large (quick math - assume ship covers 1000km3/second, and I doubt you can even theoretically manage that right now - it will take ~10^21 seconds to cover 1au^3). Sure, he can’t do anything but move until he decloaks either, but this is besides the point - a person docked up can’t either, and he can blow up together with the station. Plus he undocks at a predictable point, unlike the cloaked ship which can pop up anywhere. So - lower risk, yet higher reward.
So, anti-cloak probes. Slow enough evasion is realistic and the cloaked ships can hunt.
For the NPC stations - make them semi-destructible. Attacking one spawns huge defender fleet of the station owner, while if you manage to destroy the station, you will only burn it down - trigger asset safety etc, as if a player station gets destroyed. But unlike player stations, in say a week or two, another same station would be rebuilt by the NPCs (having same everything).

I agree that something has to be done to local as well, but it is a tangentially related problem - it would be possible to nerf just local or just cloaks without making stuff more unbalanced than what cynos already offer. I find local in even more need of a nerf than cloaks, and out of suggestions I heard or had myself, by far the best I find the suggestion where you would hack the gate to have say 1 minute delay to appearing in local. It would solve the problem in a very neat way and unlike simpler nerfs, it would actually lead to new gameplay and addition to the current game. Much easier to justify that than simply swing a nerfbat there (similarly, that’s also why I prefer anti-covops probes to afk timer - one boosts counterplay, the other nerfs the module)

Finally, many are afraid of cloaked ships because they bring pain by hotdrops. A cloaked ship alone is not that much of a threat most of the time - you can fight it well enough because you are in a better ship for combat, even though he dictates the terms of fighting. When that 1v1 becomes 30v1, not so much. Hotdrops are even more of a problem when done defensively, because the only viable counter tactic (counterdrops) aren’t really an option. So, nerf that and all of a sudden cloaky “AFK?” players won’t be considered an issue anymore, even if you don’t touch local or cloaks. The best nerf would be to simply remove that - why would the biggest ships be the most mobile?

(boernl) #4096

i can not disagree with what you say or youre arguments

if they would simply remvoe the option for a cyno from ships that can use cloaks ( i prolly get burned to the bone from the pvpers for this) and make only non cloakable ships able to carry cynos or covert cynos that would also indeed help

have to edit that ship that have a cloak tech 1 or tech 2 can not fit a cyno module would be a better version

(Merin Ryskin) #4097

Why are you allowing it to be a 30v1? STOP SOLO FARMING LIKE IT IS HIGHSEC.

Then clearly you’re bad at EVE. Nullsec has negligible risk if you make risk avoidance a priority. Local keeps you safe, and farming in a fleet ensures that anything but the strongest attacks is a suicide mission. Yeah, you might lose a ship occasionally, but that’s barely a dent in your ISK flow.

You have no rights, get over it. You are PvE farming in PvP space, the only “rights” you have are the ones you take by superior force. If you want to farm then get a PvP fleet and dare anyone to be stupid enough to attack you. Failed carebears and RMT farmers don’t get rights just because they created an account, you are not entitled to effortless solo farming just because you declare yourself to be a “PvE player”. If you don’t like it then GTFO and go back to WoW instead of playing a PvP sandbox game.

(Daichi Yamato) #4098

You guys should read the EULA again to remind yourselves of your ‘rights’.

(Mike Voidstar) #4099

They did, then some jackwagon with a cloak undid all that effort with the fitting of a single module with trivial fitting requirements.

(Merin Ryskin) #4100

Oh really? Fitting a cloak makes a 100-man fleet disappear, leaving the poor RMT farmer out on their own? Nonsense. Paying someone rent to let you put your name on a system doesn’t mean you’ve claimed it by superior force. If you want to be entitled to farm then have a PvP fleet protecting your operation. No cloaked ships will bother you because doing anything but sitting there keeping a name in local is instant suicide. If you fail to do so then congratulations, the cloaked player has brought the superior force and taken your system from you because you are so weak that you run and hide the moment a name appears in local.

(Mala Zvitorepka) #4101

OK, then 30vs5 or whatever if you have issue with doing something solo. Doesn’t change my point there at all.
Hotdrop = no skill +
decent reward (loot on destroyed ship or the fact target got destroyed in the first place) +
no risk (the ONLY risk is a larger counter-drop, but balancing “X” with “more X” isn’t balancing in the first place).

Even assuming you are doing things “right” (for some moronic definition of right) and have 20 people next to you, even when you take a dump, well, hotdrop either won’t happen or 50+ ships will arrive.

(Merin Ryskin) #4102

TL;DR: you don’t understand how PvP works. If hotdrops involve no skill or risk it’s only because the people getting hotdropped suck at EVE and deserve to die.

(Daichi Yamato) #4103

If all you can muster is 5 people then having to lay low when bigger fish come around sounds about right.

You’re not entitled to live in null. You’re not entitled to rat.

If someone bigger comes a long, you give way. If this is hugely hurting your game then you probably shouldnt be in null. I say again, YOU SHOULD NOT BE THERE. It’s the most cutthroat part of the game and no one owes you anything out there.

It’s truly baffling you think your entitled to have what thousands of other players have spent real time and effort to achieve.

Except other groups manage just fine. Bitch and whine all you want. But there have been alliances in null for years and there are alliances playing right now that defend their ratters.

Afk cloaking is not unbeatable, obviously, because null bears have been putting staggering amounts of isk and materials into the game.

How exactly do you explain that if afk cloakers are so oppressive?

(Xcom) #4104

Every time You read this thread, o man. The idiots who call AFK cloaking an actual gameplay mechanic that somehow counters local then somehow strawman that into holding space and in turn safe industry activity. Talk about pulling a rabbit out of the hat. Cloaking level safety is safer then staying docked. Its even safer then high sec activity’s. The only issue here is the strawman that its needed to somehow allow the dumbest form of gameplay, AFK and in space. LOL

It would be just as easily a way to stay in a system totally immune from any hostile hunting party’s if there were some level of non invisibility to cloaks. It would need something that every single EvE player uses, there brain and the inputs such as a keyboard and a mouse. You know the thing you use to warp from safespot to safespot. Even non-cloaked ships in interceptors could do the same thing if somehow cloaks were removed suddenly. You would just have to d-scan for probes and move around between safespots when probes showed up. You don’t even need a cloak for forcing yourself into a system and stay there indefinitely for intel or whatever.

Cloaking doesn’t need a nerf cause its to easy for “safe mining or ratting” its needed because its “to safe to cloak”. When cloaks get nerfed then nothing will change, literally.

(Teckos Pech) #4105

Ahhh yes, the self-defeating attitude is still alive and well in this thread I see.

(Mike Voidstar) #4106

He’s just restating your own ‘counter’ to cloaking–being on comms and in fleet and the cloaker can’t do anything.

Or… Even if you do it all right, either the cloaker won’t show up or will arrive with enough to deal with what’s on hand.

It would be great if we could actually force this encounter in both directions instead of the unbreakable lock on initiative the cloak enjoys.

(Teckos Pech) #4107

No Mike, it is the usual self-defeating Bravo Sierra. “If I have 20 guys in fleet, they’ll bring 50!!!” The other side always has more with you guys. Always. You guys lose because you start out with a mindset that you cannot win. FYI, I’ve been in fights where we did not have numerical superiority and we survived and even won because of good tactics, good fleet doctrine, and good piloting. Example, one time in Stain we were coming back from a POS bash. We had good logi, we had drakes (this is when drakes were good) and the fleet comp was rock solid. Hostiles dropped on us at a gate. We were going to GTFO as they had the numbers, but then the FC looked over their fleet comp and took the fight. We killed most of them and the rest warped off.

Bottom line you guys just suck. You can’t fight at all. In fact, you simply refuse to fight, ever. So spare me this “we’d like to force the fight”. Nonsense.

(Xcom) #4108

You talk about fighting yet you can’t connect the dots between AFK creating nothing but stalemate till you have the numbers. That’s outright stupid, AFKing a mexican standoff isn’t content it drives people away from the game and hollows out systems till you either are forced to join a bigger corp or wait on both sides till stuff is organized, which in smaller corps sometimes means literally doing other stuff then play EvE for some members till something happens. If there was a modicum of reason to hunt targets in your system then anything but waiting would be an option. There is no content in cloaks, its a lopsided waiting game when its abused.

But no, it’s bad for the game to play. Lets just support AFK gameplay cause you know, it helps get people killed. Except people just choose not to play the game creating even less stuff to shoot. But of course that’s not how the games suppose to be played. We are supposed to drive people away from eve by creating stalemate scenarios. Drive out those AFK cloakers by not giving them targets. Drive those miners away cause they can’t do anything till fleet is formed, except FC’s cat just died so fleets not forming this weekend. O well, maybe next week.

AFK online, best game. Maybe we should AFK the forums too, noonne posting anything. AFK till there is no reason to sub.

(boernl) #4109

meryn why do you think all ppl are automaticly rmt ?
you know that is a very serieus accusation that you can never proof

(Merin Ryskin) #4110

Because I assume that only RMT bots could be as incompetent as certain players in this thread, legitimate players would be able to understand EVE and use strategies more complex than “dock if a name appears in local”. Call it optimism, I like to think that a human can’t possibly be that hopeless.