RIght, industry is vulnerable to PvP. Got that.
What about that says to you that it should be defenseless in and of itself? What about that says that if it’s not blowing up to your guns it can’t lose an engagement?
100% of your whine is because docking up to avoid you doesn’t give you a kill mail. Boohoo.
*An easy killmail.
So stations have to go, right?
Yeah, I know “stations were designed to be the only designated safe place.” I argue that cloaked at a safe was also intended to be a “nearly 100% safe place too”. To maintain that safety with a cloak you cannot warp, you cannot gather resources, you can’t do much except look at the space around and look at chat channels.
Being defenseless is a choice though.
This is such a garbage response, IMO. Yes, people just let that poor little industrial ship go when they catch it at a gate. “Oh…it’s an easy kill. I’ll let him go. I only go after the hardest of kills.” Yes Ag3nt Jita you are sooo 1337. 
You got me wrong. I did not say anyone should let easy kills escape. I said you want easy kills because you can’t pvp.
We wouldn’t have easy kills if you could pvp. But alas that’s not what you’re interested in. You just want to farm risk-free PvE in a PvP zone. Get that RMT ISK in.
No, my complaint is that docking up is too easy, especially if AFK cloaking is removed. Local, in the absence of AFK cloaking, gives a 100% accurate warning of when you need to dock up and when it is safe to go back to farming. And that warning is delivered with enough advance notice that it is impossible to catch a target that is paying even a bit of attention to it. This results in the risk vs. reward tradeoff being inverted, and the most profitable PvE content in the game existing in the safest space in the game.
What about that says to you that it should be defenseless in and of itself?
Uh, basic balance? If a hauler/barge/whatever is good enough at PvP to win PvP fights and good enough at industry to be a viable choice there what reason would there be to fly anything else? Ships can’t be good at everything. If you want a ship that is good at industry then you have to treat it as a resource to be protected and provide it with escorts, be paranoid at watching d-scan and staying aligned, etc.
What about that says that if it’s not blowing up to your guns it can’t lose an engagement?
The fact that “loss” is meaningless without destruction? This is not a WoW-style arena PvP game where you fight a duel and try to improve your win/loss record, the only thing that mattes is which side lost their stuff. Without ship destruction a “win” means nothing, the “loser” will be right back where they started as soon as you leave, as if nothing ever happened.
I wonder how many of the pve guys do rmt…
If CCP were to ban all the known RMTers and botters in one fell swoop, nullsec would be devoid of capsuleers. But it would also hit their online metrics so hard that the few remaining legit players left would see how dead EVE really is.
Without proof you should not say things like this. Here on the forums you talk alot about botters and rmters but when i check ingame i see noone… For sure there are some but only a very small percentage of the playerbase.
Actually no you didn’t. At best you are moving goal posts at worst you are a liar.
Never been in Russian space, have you? Never been anywhere in nullsec but Providence, eh?
Nope, stations don’t have to go anywhere. They are not as safe as a cloak.
I’m fine with cloaks being safe too, so long as that safety requires effort to maintain.
You can keep tabs on someone in a station unless they jumpclone out, and even then they can be located and caught there if they leave that station.
Well in 10 years I have never lost a ship in a station. I have lost ships with a cloak…so much for that 100% safety.
In those 10 years you have never lost a ship under a cloak unless you choose to put yourself at risk.
In that same time period, you may or may not have had the undock of your station camped and died that way.
I will grant that both are choices made by the pilot. However, cloaking allows you full knowledge of the grid and every opportunity to maneuver to safety. Undocking is done blind and you can be caught with no chance to maneuver. Thus stations are not as safe as cloaks.
Cloaks are rarely at a known position and cannot be actively pursued. Stations never move, don’t even need to be scanned. Thus stations are not as safe as cloaks.
But of course we went over all this years ago.
That’s a rather dishonest argument. You can not lose a ship while in station unless you choose to put yourself at risk by undocking. If you aren’t going to count losses of cloaked ships because they require choosing to put yourself at risk then you can’t count losses of docked ships that can only happen after making the same choice. Stop using a blatant double standard.
Undocking is done blind and you can be caught with no chance to maneuver.
Except for that little thing called undock invulnerability, where you can’t be touched until you voluntarily drop it and can immediately re-dock before losing it if you don’t like the situation. This makes undocking from a station safer than dropping cloak, since a poor decision to undock can be immediately reversed before anything can hurt you. A poor decision to decloak is much harder to reverse.
(Except for a minority of stations with a very small docking radius, but as a general rule blind undocking is not an issue.)
Nicely cherry picked. Try replying to what I said.
Nicely perverted. Try not being bad at EVE?
Glad to see you admit defeat here as well then.
You have nothing to say that isn’t either completely dishonest or simply an insult.
so to do anything useful in a cloaked ship you have to decloak which as you state puts you at risk.
Whereas the only way you put yourself at risk ratting in null with perfect local intel is by being an idiot.
This is a huge difference in terms of risk/reward.
That choose to put yourself at risk…yeah, that is what you do to gather resources. Want to mine? You have to be at risk. Want to earn ISK by killing rats? You have to put yourself at risk. Want to move your manufactured goods to a market, you incur risk.
When sitting with that 100% safety cloak you cannot do any of those. This is called balance.
Undocking in a pod is extremely low risk. There is a timer and given lock times you can undock and dock back up and check the grid. And if you set the station as your home station, which you can now do with any station, and you do get podded you end up right where you began. BFD on this one.
Yes we have gone over this. In a station you can jump clone out. You manage stuff in your hangars–i.e. given how many and what types of ship and modules you have you could have many more options for undocking. You can also sit safely in station and do things like invention and manufacturing. I have done this in LS while noticing that local is chock full of hostiles…I’m not undocking and making stuff to make me ISK. And when I would move my stuff I’d use a JF…also very, very safe. With citadels down in Delve really goddamned safe.
Stations and citadels afford a player with options not available to a cloaked at a safe player, and that cloaked at a safe player has options the docked player does not. But these differences are relatively minor and do not pose a significant threat towards you unless the cloaked player is willing to take on some degree of risk.