There are many aspects to the controversies revolving around how the cooperation between the official EDENCOM organization and those independent capsuleers that support them should occur. I would hope all parties involved on the Imperial side be willing to meet and discuss them at some point.
I can teach you how to hold a proper Moot.
As long as you keep any advice on how to deescalate conflict with a hostile foreign power and its paramilitaries to yourself.
A proper Moot does not decide or advice, it speaks frankly and listens intently, in the spirit of sharing views.
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Words alone are not presently my notion of an appropriate response to the moniker of almost heretic.
Iāll just go ahead and take you both off the list of potential moderators.
Congratulations
So much for that willing to discuss then, I guess.
It is hardly surprising that your response to the charge of Minmatar collusion contains its own accusation of heresy. Indeed, many loyal Imperial subjects have recently met their gruesome end as a consequence of such accusations leveled by their peers, vying for power. You attempt to wield the word āhereticā as your both an inquisitorial spear to supplant your fellow subjects and an impenetrable shield against their chastisement. I answer to the throne, not to you. The decision of what flavor of threat against our empire I need concern myself with is also categorically not yours to make. Iām a proud member of the Empireās Militia and servant of the throne, charged primarily with furthering imperial interests in Metropolis and Bleak Lands. However, as the Gallente have now learned, the Imperial Militia is perfectly capable of deploying outside of our current theater of war to combat the enemies of the Empire and to further her interests. When whispers of Minmatar treachery reach my ears, it is a call to action. When the Empire calls, CTRLV will answer.
We who toil in service of the throne grow increasingly concerned of your careless words. You dare speak to me of heresy while insinuating that collusion with minmatar loyalists to defend their structures is an act explicitly sanctioned by the throne? The conflict in which Triglavians attempted (successfully on occasion) to abscond with our stars has concluded. I am not aware of a decree stating that the Empireās subjects should feel free to collude with minmatar loyalists and help them secure their objectives so long as these subjects make noises about EDENCOM and the greater good. I tell you what though, why donāt we see what the throne actually has to say about this? Surely such a request for clarification is unnecessary. After all, you wouldnāt dare risk falsely representing the Empressā position on this matter as a consequence of assumption, would you?
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I assure no one in PIE and/or LUMEN has helped us secure āourā objectives. The objectives we have co-operated on have been strictly in the scope of Edencom goals, or in defense of assets directly used in such operations. The four nations still believe in Edencom and the resistance is still going on - on the anniversary of our successful defense, we again heard the call to keep on contributing for that cause.
It would no doubt suit you if Edencom did no longer exist. Worry not; I assure you there are those under the Lux Invicta collaboration who wish that same to be the case, so you are not alone. First step towards wisdom is facing the facts, though: Edencom exists and calls to capsuleers to support it exist. Not as mandatory, of course - we are independent capsuleers - but as an honorable option. This is true both in the Empire and the Republic, and also in the Federation and the State.
(Also, when I need help with co-operating with our other objectives, thereāsā¦ allies both less controversial and much likelier to agree to help, for that.)
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Some time ago I formed a fleet in Amarr FW space for combat. I was contacted directly by a member of LUMEN who informed me that should I attack a local EM staging structure (in Amarr lowsec), they would be forced to descend upon my forces with a combined fleet of both EM and LUMEN.
In light of these facts, would you care to amend your assertion?
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Not really.
But maybe next time I need extra help, Iāll ask them anyhow.
Everyone makes mistakes. We all mispeak or misremember from time to time. The innumerable deaths and reincarnations that we endure as capsuleers sometimes confuse memories once clear as crystal. I judge a capsuleerās integrity not by their capacity to avoid mistakes entirely, but how they respond when their mistake is brought to light.
If you speak falsehoods and stand by them even when revealed as such, why should anyone pay your thoughts any mind? If I can abandon my bosboger-centric disinformation misadventure as a failure, surely humility would permit you to concede your own minor misteps.
To be more serious about this than my previous quip about asking help from friends in low places since they seem so willing to give it (they are not), commenting on this further would require me to divulge information that is not mine to expose.
Said information makes you technically correct that such a contact occurred, I give you that much.
It does not take away from the fact that Edencom-aligned international co-operation is entirely legitimate in all four nations, no matter how much you (or anyone else) wishes it was not so.
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A fair perspective. My thoughts are these: On one hand, I do not seek to undermine EDENCOMās capacity to combat the Triglavian menace. On the other hand, using the EDENCOM banner as a a blank check for frequent and open collaboration with enemies of the Empire is not, I think, what was intended. I am but an instrument of the throne, and thus the answers to such questions are not mine to give. I will seek clarification on this matter from an Imperial authority.
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Good that no oneās doing any such thing, then.
As a member of LUMEN whoās occasionally collaborated with your very alliance. I remember dropping and losing an Apostle with your alliance (and your friends like Templis Calsf and the āRekking Crewā entity) to defend (unsuccesfully) a Minmatar aligned Azbel against Snuffed Out.
Also working with the same Minmatars and a group of pirates (āCruisers Crewā I believe) dropping on Dock Workers mining operations throughout the warzone. Cooperating pretty closely I might add. Firebon Orlenard and you seemed buddy-buddy there for a while.
I did get briefed on that leak you alluded to. Thatās what it was BTW, a leak. Sorry Else. LUMEN would not have dropped to hit on you, I can assure you that, at the time it would probably have been my call to make if we had. But there were 30 other bored pilots sitting on that bridge in everyshore once you removed LUMEN. Bored because the fight they were going to got cancelled due to a no showā¦ By Dock Workers.
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Brother, as always, you speak truthfully and with honour. Indeed, your contributions and comradeship are sorely missed by me personally, and by the militia at large.
Tis true, CTRLV has collaborated with Minmatar on several occasions to combat pirate entities whoās forces could not be matched by Amarr or Minmatar forces alone. Minmatar and Amarr loyalists alike criticized this arrangement, apparently suggesting we face certain defeat alone rather than attempt to prevail together. However, the passage of time provides a unique perspective - and I must say after several such ill-conceived collaborations with Minmatar forces, our allies who advised caution were correct. The Minmatar are treacherous as they are cunning, and not to be underestimated.
The same flavor of scenario of collaboration that existed between CTRLV and minmil also existsed in the collaboration between Minmatar and Amarr acting through EDENCOM to combat Triglavian forces. I do not contest the legitimacy of this endeavor during the invasion. However, with the conclusion of the triglavian invasion, I question the degree to which this collaboration is approved by the throne. I also find the notion that any Amarr that harbors suspicions over the legitimacy of this arrangement is teetering on heresyā¦ asā¦ potentially heretical itself, contingent on the true position of the throne, which I will formally beseech for clarification.
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I can see your point with regards to the continuation of collaboration in Pochven. At the moment, my understanding of the Amarr position is that EDENCOM is still legitimateā¦ But take that with a grain of salt, after all Iām just a Caldari sell-sword and not a theologian or even an amarrian.
A pronouncement from her majesty would be most welcome as clarification on this issue, though this may not be the most pressing issue for the empire.
Now speaking personally as a Caldari. Any excuse to shoot a triglavian or kybernaut is a good one, no matter how thin. I lost too many, the State has lost too much, for any forgiveness.
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A fantastic question.
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