I am glad you remain of sound mind and open to facts, Ms.Kim. Ask them, indeed. The truth should be known.
I cannot share an Amarr perspective precisely, but if you ever desire the perspective of one who lived in servitude, I’d be happy to open up to you if it helps you form an opinion.
Argument from authority is one of the most widespread logical fallacies. And speaking about Tibus Heth, however merited or heroic he was, idolizing him and taking him authority for everything is straightforward wrong. Maybe I would hurt your feeling, but cult of personality is not something that Caldari shall do. After all, Tibus Heth lacked merit that every other CEO was helding - he was not a “shark of business”, he got position only because others promoted him, he did nothing to fight for the power nor anything to hold the power, and he simply lost it due to inaction. He might been good at managing the State, but he was really bad at holding his power. He could have done way more if he would be not only fighting gallente, but concentrating his efforts on maintaining his position as a leader of the State.
As it is said, dead logi cannot repair. Ex-leaders cannot command.
Asking Rella to show respect sounds the same as asking a tree to step aside. You cannot put a swine on a chair behind a dinning table and expect her to show good manners. I have known her for ages already.
Back in the day, I was using her as an example “of a minmatar”, and really Rella herself and people like her are the reasons of my early ideas about Minmatar people as a whole, that resulted in rather low opinions. But after speaking with people like you, like Ms. Vess, Ms. Vuld and others I already don’t have ideas that “all minmatars should be held in slavery pens” and expect actually polite, reasonable and respectful arguments.
I still wouldn’t expect any of that from Anabella Rella and her ilk. And while I don’t think minmatars shall be enslaved as a whole anymore, I still think that if Amarr didn’t invent Vitoc and slavery, they should have done so only becasue of Anabella Rella to prevent people like her from running wild.
Wouldn’t go that far with that, remember all of those things can be used on you or similar minded people as easily as the extremist. After all, I have access to viral agents, deathglow, vitoc, ect. None of these things are hard to get now that they’re in circulation. It’s a bad thing they were invented even if they may have justifiable reasons to exist*.
*Note: Not everything I mentioned are things I’d consider justifiable, just using examples of things we shouldn’t have access to morally, but do.
With respect, Commander, there are always pretexts. If there are legal justifications for a thing, then someone will find a way to twist the law and the chain of events to allow them to legally do that thing however they wish.
For example, if you justify enslavement as a form of punishment for extremists, then all someone has to do is trick and manipulate someone into a momentary loss of temper. A normally honorable, focused individual of strong character and strong loyalties, provoked into a strong reaction which is then taken out of context, can be made to look like a rabid extremist.
And then what? They get enslaved because someone tricked them into insisting that another nation should be completely eradicated? Certainly, the Amarr would consider any members of the TLF who declared that the Empire should be destroyed to be extremists, wouldn’t they?
Would you trust the Federation with that kind of latitude?
Considering how well people followed the rest of the rules… yeah, probably.
Why did you dream of… well, actually, that could be any major male political figure in any Empire?
I’m not a dreamologist.
Tbh, I think dreamology is a bit of a sham.
Loss of temper extremism doesn’t make. Though it never shall be an excuse of any crime committed because of it.
Well, now that’s extremism! Unless it’s a Sansha Nation. They’re not humans, they’re space zombies with scooped out brains and replaced them with wires, exterminating them is not killing people.
Those who are in TLF are worse than extremists - they’re enemies of the Empire and thus are targets for killing or enslaving if they surrender alive. It’s the war.
First of all, trusting the Federation with anything would be not wise.
And second, don’t they already have something like that or even worse? I’d better put a bullet through my skull than surrender to them alive. I’d better be a slave in the Empire than a PoW in Gallente prison camp.
So are you saying the Federation mustn’t be destroyed?
Pilots in the TLF are generally no different than militia pilots from the State: pilots who are fiercely devoted to their nation and their people. They want to protect their people from the aggression and cruelty of their larger neighbor who has historically mistreated them and tried to force them to abandon their culture.
Of course the Federation MUST be destroyed!!
See? You’ve just been tricked into insisting that another nation should be completely eradicated.
As in,the nation should be disbanded,or all cities should be razed and all its people killed?
There is quite a difference between wanting a nation gone and wanting it dead.
I guess depends on the type of the nation. In case of Sansha Nation - yes, everything must be razed to the ground everyone killed (though they aren’t really alive anyway), leaving only ashes behind.
In case of Federation, well… they’re people after all. So, just disband the criminal organization known as Gallente Federation (under destroying the Federation I mean terminating the Federal charter - the legal document and all the gorvernment structure), leaving all the cities and people intact. Just quarantine Gallente planets for a bit and let other nations self-organize without humiliation of gallente influence. Then lift the quarantine partially and prevent them from spreading iedas of democracy and freedom outside, use their planets as a “zoo” where citizens could visit to see how degraded democratic societies can get.
Uhm…
Well, I found it all very understandable up until that last part about using planets as zoos and preventing ideas of freedom.
I will admit, I would not go that far with the Empire, myself, but I am relieved you do not want to kill them all!
Did you really think I would even consider killing them all?
Where did you get it?
Have you listening to some deranged gallente propagandists lately? Damn, there is a lot of gallente bootlickers around, trying to tell weird things about me!
For example, it were only GALLENTE who were calling to “Exterminate all Caldari”, both baseline (on Caldari Prime) and some capsuleers, making threads like that on forum - but never Caldari did so! And yet, some of these sickos after that dare to blame US in being monsters and wanting to “kill them all.”
Do you see now why I hate gallente?
Their place is in zoo, not here.
The Gallente are a very varied people, and I do quite enjoy the company of some of them. I would certainly not place them in a zoo.
Your words could have been read one or two ways, but I did not truly believe you wanted them all dead, no.
This is true, as individuals should be free to live their own lives as according to their own beliefs and culture, Gallente just like anyone else. That being said, it should be considered there was no war between Caldari or Gallente for centuries when both sides allowed the other to live as they chose. It was only with the advent of the Federation and its increasing use as a political, economic, and military tool to advantage Gallente dominion over Caldari interests that war occurred.
The continued use of the Federation as an instrument of foreign coercion over sovereign peoples is why it must be destroyed as an entity.
And yet considering what values they usually coerce against, I find it difficult to always agree that their interference is not for a greater good.
I am obviously on board with their pressures,covert and overt,on the Empire to end the outdated practice of slavery,but I dont see any good reason to similarly curb state interests so I can not support that.
I suppose that puts me on the fence?
The unfortunate irony in the relationship in the State-Federal relationship is that the features deemed unacceptable today by the standards of the Federation of today such as a lack of democracy in the State already existed in Caldari corporates and colonies prior to the creation of the Federal Union. This then creates an open question: why were Caldari corporates and colonies allowed to exist for centuries in peace without interference by Gallente, then suddenly deemed intolerable once the Federation was formed?
I think there’s a genuine interest to return to days of respect and tolerance between Caldari and Gallente but I’m doubtful if that’s possible so long as the Federal apparatus might be used against an independent Caldari State in the name of “democracy and freedom” by rogue actors like Luc Duvalier.
The main impediment to peace between Caldari and the varied nations of Gallente is the Federation itself, and the lack of assurance or guarantee that it won’t be co-opted by bad actors seeking the destruction of the Caldari people through violence and war for no other reason than to enforce a foreign culture and ideology.
While I appreciate the utility the Federation has in the struggle of your own people, it unfortunately does not change the historical perspective of Caldari who look across our borders at a potential warmonger in the Federation.