Utari's Puppies (Formerly Off-Topic Thread)

[Jason_Galente]

This is the greatest thread on the IGS. We might as well just stop now and call it a win.

[Arrendis]

The best part is, because the topic is off-topic, even when the thread goes off-topic and stays on-topic, it’s still off-topic, so it’s on-topic.

[Valerie_Valate]

Is talking about this thread on-topic or off-topic ? Or both ? Or neither ?

[Parious_MeHoff]

Yes it is.

[Arrendis]

It’s the most appropriate portmanteau of both and neither: bother.

[Aria_Jenneth]

So, for those of you who’re wondering why Veik and I are having a silly spat (again):

Caldari castes aren’t as solid-- usually-- as the word “caste” might imply in some other societies. You can move between castes, based on early-life aptitude and testing, or on later-life demonstrated ability. The Caldari pride themselves on recognizing talent and putting it to good use; being born to a Laborer doesn’t mean you’ll be a Laborer yourself (though having the resources to make Executive might be kind of hard).

The basic hierarchy of castes goes:

Laborer - obvious.

Technician - similar, but more specialized. Includes most skilled non-managerial positions.

Executive - includes management of various kinds.

Chief Executive - top-tier-- and the only one you can’t be promoted into by ordinary means. “Great families.”

There are others (scientists, military, dissociated), but that’s the basic hierarchy. Veik’s trying to blur its role. I’m not sure why except that she seems to fancy herself a trickster, and also the “Chief Executive” caste and the great families’ existence is a bit of a, uh, problem, for the State self-image as a meritocracy.

Actually I don’t think it’s much of a failing. It can be very useful to have a sort of circle of people with a whiff of legend about them leading your society, especially if they’re wise enough to know how important it is to delegate.

[Veikitamo_Gesakaarin]

@Aria_Jenneth

I’m not sure why except that she seems to fancy herself a trickster

If that was true, it would require me fooling anyone.

[Jason_Galente]

Also, of course you admire and trust Oiritsuu. You’re like a knock-off of her.

[Veikitamo_Gesakaarin]

I see nothing wrong in the admiration of competency.

[Jason_Galente]

She’s quite competent at stealing candy from children and laughing about it.

By the gods, Veik. Only you. Only you can turn me into a bleeding heart hippie like this.

[Veikitamo_Gesakaarin]

From all accounts, she can afford to purchase candy, not steal it.

[Jason_Galente]

You know that never stops a corporate executive. They can afford to do nearly anything they want, yet they continue to make shrewd deals, sometimes actually trying to break their trade partners completely, even when it’s unnecessary. Oiritsuu is one such person.

Also.

@Veikitamo_Gesakaarin

No, the State just cut out the democratic middle man as inefficient and ineffective in recognizing the power of corporate institutions to enable cultural, political, and defense realities in the interests of the Caldari people.

This doesn’t seem like a response to my points.

[Veikitamo_Gesakaarin]

@Jason_Galente

You know that never stops a corporate executive. They can afford to do nearly anything they want, yet they continue to make shrewd deals, sometimes actually trying to break their trade partners completely, even when it’s unnecessary. Oiritsuu is one such person.

Business is war; war is business. Either you win, or you don’t, and accept the terms of the victor.

@Jason_Galente

This doesn’t seem like a response to my points.

It was an affirmation that both State and Federation exist as capitalist and corporate powers. The only difference being the Federation clings to democracy like an appendix: a vestigial system which serves no current appreciable function besides sepsis.

[Jason_Galente]

@Veikitamo_Gesakaarin

This doesn’t seem like a response to my points.

It was an affirmation that both State and Federation exist as capitalist and corporate powers. The only difference being the Federation clings to democracy like an appendix: a vestigial system which serves no current appreciable function besides sepsis.

You didn’t address my critique of the hypocrisy of corporate executives regarding their own lifestyles.

[Veikitamo_Gesakaarin]

@Jason_Galente

You didn’t address my critique of the hypocrisy of corporate executives regarding their own lifestyles.

The private lifestyle of any citizen, Executive or not, should be considered their own affair so long as it does not impair the prosecution of their obligations to a company to meet its goals.

[Veikitamo_Gesakaarin]

@Jason_Galente

By the gods, Veik. Only you. Only you can turn me into a bleeding heart hippie like this.

I await your compilation of mescaline fuelled beat poetry once you grow that hair out nonetheless.

[Alizabeth_Vea]

@Elsebeth_Rhiannon

You know, “exile” does not mean “go shoot fun stuff over there, come back for the parties”. It means “go away and stay there ”.

You’re right. Makes me take a step back and reevaluate things. If what I thought was home ever was? If a square peg like me can ever fit in a round hole? If I’m a fraud, sitting in a seat I don’t deserve, trying to do what I cannot, realizing that I will never be what others thing I am, or can be?

Have you ever been at that table, wondering how it happened you wound up to be sitting here?

I’m a Caldari convert. Excepting my ability to fly ships with unbridled destructive power, I’m one step up from Slaver Hound crap. Nothing I ever do will be good enough. Nothing I ever say will be right enough. On the asset sheets, I am firmly in the liability column.

So, yeah, you’re right in part. Though, maybe instead of exile, it should have been a simple cup of tea.

[Kalaratiri]

@Alizabeth_Vea

On the asset sheets, I am firmly in the liability column.

Mostly because you keep making posts like this, I would imagine.

[Valerie_Valate]

Marine ! Get your head and your ass wired together ! Right now !

Those heretics aren’t going to kill themselves, Marine. You’ve got a job to do.

So quit wallowing in self pity, pick up your weapon and get to it !

[Nauplius]

@Aria_Jenneth

and the great families’ existence is a bit of a, uh, problem, for the State self-image as a meritocracy.

Actually I don’t think it’s much of a failing. It can be very useful to have a sort of circle of people with a whiff of legend about them leading your society, especially if they’re wise enough to know how important it is to delegate.

So in order to perfect the Caldari State we need to:

• Expand the hereditary nature of the system so as to encompass all four castes and not just the top one.
• Expand the role of the Maker so as to crowd out and eventually eliminate all other deities.
• Choose the Leader of the State by means of some sort of divinitory rite among the CEOs, as is done with the Amarr Succession Trials.

Adding a fifth caste, “slaves”, made of captured Minmatar would be an optional goal.

All this seems doable to me; I don’t believe the Caldari and Amarr systems to be as incompatible as is often alleged by pilots who would have preferred their State to ally with the Minmatar/Gallente instead of the Amarr.