Every piece of information we have over a large time period says that there is a large high sec only population who make the largest ‘group’ of players. If you want to argue that this isn’t true I believe the onus is on you to produce some sources.
Otherwise you are merely quibbling over if it’s 60% or 70% simply for the sake of an argument since the exact number is not relevant to the initial point you two are arguing over.
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In other news a Keepstar was bought online 48 hours ago for $1,799.00
CCP mail me ingame for site info
As someone who basically lives in 10% TiDi, yes, it’s always disappointing when we push the server past 10% TiDi into actual lag and overload (because it doesn’t drop commands until we’re well past 10% Time Dilation), but really, we knew what we were getting into. We may not have expected it to be quite so bad, but when you’re already at 4000 people and you’re still bringing more fleets into system? You know it’s gonna get ugly.
No, I’m arguing that using outdated information and drawing current conclusions from it weakens the advocate’s position. If your base data is outdated or incorrect, don’t make absolutist claims. It makes you look foolish in the eyes of people who have the current data (ie: the devs). How arguments are presented directly impacts their effectiveness.
Put in a bleedin’ ticket. If you know RMT’s going on and you have proof, report it, don’t just posture.
There we go the video. The graph makes its appearance at about 22:45.
Edit:
It should be noted that the PvE activities are done primarily by Professionals, Entrepreneurs, and Traditionals. So instead of making this a HS vs. NS issue maybe point out that making better PvE content would appeal to those three groups.
Further, the Traditionals have the lowest ratings in terms of social activities. They are the least connected players, they chat with others the least, and they very rarely form a fleet. Further, their PvP activity is virtually non-existent. According to CCP Rise these players are the least likely to stick with the game because of their isolation from other players. And look they tend to play the game the least. They logon the least and they have short logo on duration.
I’m not saying get rid of content. Just update/replace it to keep things fresh and the income in line with the original design, or at least deprecate it by reducing the payout for content that is beat and not going to be iterated upon. The game dies when you just let content lay fallow, especially content that takes up all the air because power creep and min/maxing have made it so nothing else pays as well. This is why the special events in recent years have been some of the best received of the new PvE - they are new, of limited duration and their rewards are actually desirable.
New PvE has to be incentivized to be run or most players will choose the safe, predictable payout even if it is less fun. And incentivizing players to run the less fun content makes no sense. By all means, keep old content around so those that love the predictable can log in and get their fix, but CCP has to make every effort to get players out in space running the new, better content they are spending significant effort on and hopefully think is better, and balancing rewards is a key part of that.
That hasn’t been done properly for Resource Wars in my estimation, and possibly FOBs although I think the verdict on that is still out on those. If only we had a balance team or something to tweak under- or over-paying rewards?
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You play what you like or for what you have time essentially. PvE is good for that timespan. Dont have obligations towards alliance, or even corporation, doesnt have to experience TiDi, can have your own play hours and you can do everything in game and also shiptoasting in some chat or forum between activating the ‘F1 missile launcher’. I would not be surprised if those people are those who have wife and children already.
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Time is a key concept: when the player gives out his time, EVE must return something for it. For players with little or unreliable time allocation, PvE is very important. EVE as leisure is competing with all other sources of leisure, and EVE’s “core” experience haves poor to terrible value per time.
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They did due to lack of iterations on them.
This absolutely needs to happen if they let Sansha go on well earned vacation incursions are moving circus and are strong social and large (40-60) fleet content, landing 60ti ppl strong fleet on a fob will not cover your ammo cost in rewards lol.
Further more those were first AI that interacted for “real” with another one (drifter vs amarr military in sites) same thing is happening in RW sites so tech is not dead.
It sounded to me as refresh of incursion until i noticed that they are there with old incursions and are bugged to all hell and back.
Just dropping incursions for nothing shouldn’t happen imo.
But incursions already dont fulfill the promise of the casual PvE. If anything, the new stuff have to be accessed from multiple places, have to be more accessible and giving you this epic feeling and call for doing it because of potential and guaranteed rewards. Doesnt have to be really hard, just doable solo in a battleship or better than tech 1 cruiser. It should give you this urge of ‘playing just one more missions’ before logging out. I think escalations give that.
If you dont know, the high sec dens are always run because they promise you the potential escalation, sometimes even to high sec 5/10 DED. But dens are not everywhere because people already have run them. Instead of searching for dens, people could do missions for their own mission escalations.
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Sure, they shouldn’t just be removed with no replacement. Whether that replacement are FOBs or a new iteration of the Drifter Incursions, there needs to be something for those who like to run group PvE.
Incursions, by their very nature, seem to have been conceived as a temporary invasion-style event, but one that seems to have got abandoned and left as some weird, lore-bending permanent feature of New Eden. They would be better suited as content more like the new(ish) PvE events that last only a few weeks or maybe months and then rotated between various factions taking their turn attacking the various regions of New Eden.
Drifters Incursions on the other hand I still can’t make sense of. They were never given a real chance before they were killed, so I can only assume there were/are massive backend problems with them that aren’t worth fixing, rather than that they were some strange test bed on the live server for the new AI as was the public explanation. If that is the case, best CCP kill all the incursion code and start fresh with new tools they have developed to create replacement group PvE content using FOBs or the Agency events or the new missioning tools or all of the above.
This is all off-topic though. Whatever PvE CCP develops or iterates on, it needs to be balanced properly, and monitored over time to make sure things stay in balance, and that is something a dedicated balance team could oversee. I am saddened CCP doesn’t think have people looking at the overall balance issue is a worthwhile use of developer time as I do.
That’s fine. But look at the numbers, setting aside @Arrendis’ points (quite a few I do agree with), the Traditional players are not the largest group of players (Professionals are). And according to CCP’s own analysis those players tend to stay with the game the least. They are also less likely to attend things like Fanfest as well. And because they are not connected to other players they tend to lack the organization to get much, if any, voice on the CSM.
So perhaps instead of making this a HS vs. NS and PvPer vs. PvEer thing…shift the narrative to PvE is something that about 80% of the player base takes part is and improving that will make the game better for those 80%. Yes maybe those numbers are stale, but still this sounds like a better message and creating divisions among those who agree with you is…well…not a good strategy.
Like I said, IMO, Yiole lost the narrative here. Focus back on what is important…good or better PvE.
Sure. But this is true for all players. Bickering about HS vs. NS or PvP vs. PvE has meant your message has, IMO, been somewhat lost. I don’t disagree with your PvE message. In fact, not sure anyone here really does (I know I was not an early poster, but I was reading the thread from the start).
Edit: By the way, turning this into a HS vs. NS/PvE vs. PvP thing instead of a “make better PvE for 80% (or whatever the current number is) of your player base,” will almost surely mean HS loses out again. You guys don’t go to Fanfest in large numbers. You aren’t organized or even engaged with the game to have much if any impact on the CSM. A similar case can be made for the Entrepreneurs. They are better connected, tend to be in HS, but they don’t go to Fanfest. In the video CCP showed how Fanfest attendees stacked up. Well over 50% were Professionals and Aggressors had numbers at Fanfest in excess of their representation in game as well. Entrepreneur and Traditional player were very under-represented.
This is very much like the concept of regulatory capture. Who does CCP talk to? The Porfessionals and Aggressors…so who gets the most attention/benefit from Dev resources? The Professionals and the Aggressors.
Framing this as HS vs. NS/PvP vs. PvE will mean you are more likely to lose. At least that is my take on it.
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Of course, I do not question that. My comment was mainly about time constrains. Also I dont think social activity in game is everything as there are voice chats or forums.
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Agreed on the chatting. I rarely chat in game. Sadly talking on comms in my small home is not ideal given the time I play.
And yeah, flexible PvE would be great. You got an hour, log in and do something fun/interesting. Great. But as @Black_Pedro said, it should be monitored, balanced and yes improved upon…keeping in mind that CCP has finite resources.
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And then if you get escalation, it could be available for the next 24 hours, giving you this urge to play it more later or just a bit more longer, or just one more mission to get the escalation. 
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I used to sell my NS escalations to a corpmate back in EXE. He ran them to get the extra ISK to buy PLEX…I wasn’t a huge fan of ratting anyways, but did it to help pump up the indexes from time to time.
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If missioneers would like to sell their escalations to low sec to corp members it could also potentially give communication and social ties a boost, because it could develop the precious trust. Or maybe they could do it together for easier completion and security? One can wonder.
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all the epic arcs but Minmatar I think have low or null options for more pay greater rewards, side with sasnha instead of a 300m implant get a 500m implant, side with syndicate instead of gallente get a awesome cloaking device, and caldari always sends you to low/null.
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Only current epic arcs are not escalations you could get randomly, to random places, with random rewards, and you can run them only every 3 months. I just wanted to blur the lines between exploration and missioning to a degree. As someone who have done both, i think it would be a nice mix to add some flavor to missioning.
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@Teckos Pech
I do not find your conclusions valid. Metric data requires some level of interpretation. The best interpretation is more metric data, not opinion. There is a art and skill to it natural with some, so its not all numbers part of it is insight driven. That being said lets talk about the more metric data part of this.
“They tend to long on the shortest durations”
This statement itself shows ignorance of how the common trend of metric data is. What an interesting point it is to bring up how much those few players pay. In fact, according to metric data done in the industry, the average player in general spends $336 A year (cited with blizzards research into mmo-gaming).
When we talk about population there are a few key things that are highly important to be addressed, of them most importantly is understanding population, in order to obtain more of it, and ultimately more income. This is a point that ccp is failing horribly on. A company that has controlled the niche genre for almost two decades is making 80m a year. Do you see the problem in that? It shows that their understand of how to deal with these populations is totally off. I suspect you are a ccp alt, because of the way you word things and the meanings that are implied between the lines, so lets look at this in a deeper capacity.
Population is the blood force, no the life force of the game. It is by it that the game lives and dies, grows and shrinks, and so forth. If a large amount of your population plays rarely, you do not ignore them because they dont play a lot. In fact, as i mentioned about this is where a large amount of the issue is for a development team. The reason is because this is normal, natural process of gamers. The average player does not play every day, and does not play 10 hours a day they play. In fact, these populations are historically a very marginal amount of ANY game, including Eve online.
What ever person think ignoring these 3 month on, 1 month off 10 hours a week type players is good, should be fired and laughed out of the industry (no joke), because 83% of gamers that play mmo fall in this category, and if they cannot get the simple gist of how this effects the longevity of the game, and the games income rates, they are horribly doing everything wrong.
Eve online has turned into this “complex vs simple” “softcore vs hardcore” “kid vs adult game”. The truth is, these positions are ignorant to an extremely level. Simplicity brings about people, Wow’s average age is not 14, its 28 (actually hire then eves if i recall right).
Fixing high sec so that more people are not harassed by the 17% hardcore players (not all of which are pvp based) does not break the game, it only supports more people in it. This has been the longest standing issue in eve, and one of the three key factors of why its population does not grow.
@CCP_Falcon please read the above, you guys need to be on track with these points.
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Escalations don’t do so well if you’re really short on time. You have to bring a ship big enough to run them (I fly cheap, so usually tech 1 BC/BS for me). Best you can do if you really can’t log out is sell the bookmark.
If lowsec gets involved with your escalation, expect to do a lot of warping off if you try to run it unless you lucked out and got a really dead system. 24 hours is kind of too short for that, which makes your only real option usually to sell it.
Tangent: the mechanic could be changed from “you have X escalation here” to “you have 2-3 escalations to choose from, enter one (can’t be complete or it becomes park-your-alt-in-one-while-you-run-the-other) and the others disappear.” The shinier/scarier one would be more distant and probably in more dangerous space, and the less shiny one would be closer and probably safer.
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