Yes that was kind of my point in suggesting that Miners do it first. The cost negates each other anyway.
Ok and then if its that poor an activity, it follows it should be… Better protected from projected losses? Or made more profitable? Not mutually exclusive options.
I don’t know, I don’t really care about the cost reward balance of the athanor. What I see is that the mechanism favor ninja mining too much.
There are advantages, like being able to warp to the athanor and drop the ore in the orca.
Also I don’t facto jackpot (because I don’t know the ratio)
I cant help but think the way youve described it, why would another really bother?
If its cost effectiveness is entirely tied to the cost of running the operation, and good profit can only be made ninjing, why dont people just regular mine instead?
Why is it so popular if its so weak in regards isk/hr? And how do the ninjas profit? Because they arent fuelling and operating a station?
Surely theres more to it than that.
But anyway. You have calculated that the ninjas either get it too easy or the krabs too hard.
Having run stations myself, Im still finding it hard to know why, and if they didnt want to make ninjing be a thing, why make it so tempting?
Edit : sorry most of this is probably rhetorical tbh
Because Anderson is completely wrong.
The Athanor costs 1 bil. Running it costs pocket change.
You can pull like 1bil of ore in HiSec, and it can be cleared in under an hour with a dozen Skiffs with boosts.
So the first pull you pay for the Athanor. All other pulls, minus some pocket change, is profit.
See thats why I need to know the margin.
Any doubt cast on it skews the theory.
I’m not sure what you mean by “margin”. After the first billion ISK mined, the rest is profit - operating costs. I’ve seen 50m-150m thrown around, depending on the drill cycle and just keeping the structure out of “low power”.
Well the margin would be I suppose over time. Say… a month?
Being generous and saying all these need gathered.
Fuel
Station
Fleet (this variable I dont know at all because Ive no idea the average size or composition, or if the goal is to hoover the whole field and how quick.)
Versus
Value pulled in over 4 operations, is that right in a month?
Compared to an open ice or ore field where anyone can be at it.
I’m not sure about the specific numbers. I do know that I make at least 2x more when mining ABCs at moons than I do just mining at regular HiSec belts, per hour. And I know that the cost of running an Athanor is pocket change compared to how much ore it can generate over that time.
I promise it’s super profitable for groups that have their act together. So much so in fact that CVA has several Athanors anchored and active in Ebo. It’s so safe and profitable that it beats NullSec mining.
Ninja miners are such a petty thing to whine about. It’s just pure greed on the part of the owners.
That was certainly my feelings on the matter.
If it is just a cost to have Jupiter Mining Corp Security Forces (and that sort of thing is what this game is lacking, a bit of nice crunchy homemade lore pie on a bed of ■■■■ You Im CounterGanking your ninjas) to defend their claim, I call Kulaks on the lot of em.
Yeah maybe make it cost an extra couple of hundred million ISK/month to run a security module or something that either spawns NPCs (not the best choice) or causes out of corp characters to go suspect when they get within X distance of the rocks or something. But the compromise is with that module active, only people in the corp/Alliance can mine without flagging suspect, so if you want the security, you have to be vulnerable to WarDecs on the mining characters.
Otherwise, mechanics are already in place (albeit somewhat nerfed (at the request of carebears over the years)) to deal with “ninjas”
Not much reason for any change or whining, the tools are there. Suspect flagging but requiring in-corp mining toons would be the best option. Oh, and lock toons in a corp that gets WarDec’d. No jumping ship. That is just lame.
I gave you the real value of the ore. It’s 42% more for the spod compared to raw velsdpar (after compression otherwise veldspar is just better), and that’s the best one you can get.
That tells a lot about how good you are at calculating profit.
No wonder you claim “it’s fine” then.
Okay, I know you’re just baiting me here, but I’ll nibble:
There is more that goes into ISK/hr when mining than simply the value of a load. Thx.
Nope there is not when you compare the value of what you mine.
Your claim
Yes, there is, because I’m talking about ISK/hr.
Just reread what you quoted. Here, I’ll hold your hand for you:
I made the important part bold for you so you can hopefully understand it.
and the value I talk about is PER m³ so just a factor to get PER HOUR because your m³/h is the same across the asteroids.
PER HOUR of mining spod you make in value 42% more than standard veldspar, at the current price.
No, it’s actually not, because as I pointed out, there are other factors involved. 
Yes it is, because you did not point out those imaginary factors.
Please kid. The adults are talking about real number, keep your imaginary factors in your head.
then they have no room in the discussion.
It’s interesting how whenever I bring up this:
Anderson starts an argument with me about something unrelated and out of context. Can we say “red herring” much?
The reason this thread went so far off the rails is because you just won’t accept that it falls to you to secure your moon rocks. Pop the chunk when your people can clear the field. Mine it faster than they can in their little ninja ventures. Worst case war deck them.
Certain friends of mine will hunt for moons about to pop in null sec and setup a prospect fleet to go yank out all the good stuff. This happens, and is intentionally part of the game. If you want to smoke the dudes mining your ore without the ■■■■■■■■ of a war dec move your operation to low/null/wh, and setup security. Otherwise mine faster than they can, or quit bitching. /Thread