The end of CO2?

Communications Center General Discussion
125

There is no espionage feature in the game. If you are spying, you are using improvised methods and tools to achieve goals and objectives that YOU have decided are worth achieving. No one is making you. The game ALLOWS it. You have freedom. The choice is YOURS. (Hmmmm . . . that sounds familiar. Where have I heard that before?)

Some things:

  • I will complain about whatever I damn well please. If you don’t like it, go away.
  • You ARE telling myself and others how to feel, act, and think too much. Maybe you should focus on yourself.
  • If you don’t care, what are you doing in this thread? What is the point of trying to spread your (supposed) apathy to others? FOCUS ON YOURSELF.

Have a nice day!

126

I just don’t get the point of whining about the game in this manner. These things that happen are part of the game. The ability to play the game in this way is a feature of the game (emergent gameplay / sandbox).

There are better things you could be doing with your time rather than complaining about something that isn’t going to change.

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127

Meanwhile the real issues with the game lay unadressed by CCP…

Maybe CSM members should at last push some agenda on CCP, instead of plotting against the rest of EVE players.

128

The Judge did nothing against the rules… official.
No one can prove logs where we can see that he got payed in RL.

But as a CSM you should work for the Community to improve the Game and not do Destroy it.
What The Judge had done?
He played for a specific group of the community and CCP know it.

The incredible thing is that a CSM Member (a Player for the Community) know what he has done and then start Streaming the alliance chat to bait a other Player.

A Player that build his dream in over 10 Years in EVE and got destroyed in few mins and baited by the CCP group to be banned. Yes, CCP Group. A CSM Member involved and CCP had know about it and was on the Stream to check if the Bait work. Yeaha baited… Streamig a emotional thing after a work over 10 years got destroyed… Well.

So at least CCP killed a old EVE Veteran.

Co2 will not come back without gigX. gigX was Co2 and thats the end.

We can hope that CCP will thing about that and i really hope that we dont get a China Server here with no content. Anoyed Player will faster run then you thing CCP.

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129

You’re right about that…

Then you fail right here. How do you know his intention was to “bait” Gigx and not just stream the steady flow of tears? You are making assumptions. It’s just the same parroted claims made by others.

No proof, just words.

130

Baiting someone into triggering an admin slap is an age-old meta strategy in any number of formats.

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131

They sit back and watch it happen in one way or another every single day…working as intended?

We all have feelings about that question…

132

Well, the core rules are listed in aggregate here:

https://community.eveonline.com/support/policies/terms-of-service-en/

And then the more nuanced application of those are on this page:

https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/sections/201141692-EULA-ToS-Policies

In regards to scamming and stealing CCP has the following to say on the matter:

SCAMS

A scam is what happens when someone takes advantage of a players misplaced trust, temporary confusion or ignorance of game rules, and robs players via legal in-game means. When this occurs, there is nothing the Support Team can do for the victim. Although low and despicable, scams do not violate any game mechanics and can not be compensated for by the GMs, nor can the scammers generally be punished for their actions.

However, scams that affect areas outside of the game may not be tolerated in the same manner, such as…

I truncated that for brevity, but it’s linked. CCP even has a special entry for Corp Theft:

CORP THEFT

It is not an exploit to remove assets belonging to a corporation as long as the access to the corporation assets was acquired through normal game mechanics. Any assets lost due to the granting of roles are not eligible for reimbursement. Players are advised to exercise caution when granting roles or storing assets in corporation locations. Any assets that are placed in corporation structures become the communal property of the corporation members capable of retrieving them. Corporation assets in need of reimbursement would be reimbursed to the CEO of the corporation for distribution as they see fit.

I’ll grant you that these rules aren’t necessarily made clear to new players or are obvious from within the game client but the fact that this game play is legal and allowed shouldn’t be contentious at this point in the game’s lifespan. Such “trust” game play is central to Eve Online and always has been.

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133

No, I think I’ll stay here and continue to make fun of sensitive little carebears.

You keep dwelling on the fact that playing this way is not required. You’re correct, what’s your point? You knew people can and do play this way, are you just complaining that someone was mean to you? Do you whine this much when someone gets too many monopolies in the game Monopoly?

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134

Excellent post, sir. Thank you.

I concede that “trust gameplay” is a part of what makes EVE Online a unique game. It was never my contention that the theft in question was “out of bounds”. But since you are appealing to rules and since you conveniently linked some of the rules in your terrific post above, I’ll point to some of them which The Judge would seem to have violated.

Excerpt from rule #1 of the terms of service: “You may not abuse . . . another player . . .This includes, but is not limited to: filing support tickets with false information in an attempt to gain from it or have someone else suffer from it”

I’m not privy to how CCP came about the knowledge that Gigx threatened The Judge, but I can tell you that there was not a reasonable threat response on the part of The Judge. One does not continue to ROB someone they are threatened by. One de-escalates (maybe by apologizing and giving the stolen items back) , disengages, and given the supposed gravity of the threat (5000 people are going to dismember him, lol), CALLS THE POLICE!

Excerpt from rule #4 of the terms of service: “You may not use “role-playing” as an excuse to violate these rules.”

It should go without saying that that, although chimpanzees are known to bash eachother’s heads in, putting on a chimpanzee costume and “roleplaying” as one does not give you the right to commit such harm without consequence.

Excerpt from rule #5 of the terms of service: “You will report out-of-game issues regarding harassment, such as threatening phone calls or correspondence, to your local law enforcement officials or Internet provider.”

A video game maker is generally not well equipped to deal with society’s malignancies. If you get mugged in a Wal-Mart parking lot, you don’t go into the store and complain to the shift manager. If someone calls you on your cell phone and threatens to hack you to pieces, you don’t report it to Verizon. But the problem with calling the proper authorities is that the police know a liar when they see one and they know abuse and provocation and harrassment when they see it.

Excerpt from rule #8 of the terms of service: “You may not impersonate or falsely present yourself to be a representative of another player, group of players, character or NPC entity.”

So, the dude gets a free ride and then backstabs the people whose interests he was supposed to represent. That one’s pretty cut and dried .

#16 and #17 look interesting but I’ll stop here.

TL;DR - Rule breakers should not make appeals to rules.

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135

If you feel that the EULA has been violated, you should file a support ticket. A hard working GM will patiently explain to you how everything the Judge did is allowed, because this is EVE Online.

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136

The Judge was streaming alliance chat. He could have had any number of people report the offensive behavior. The Judge also went to comment later that he didn’t think that the threat was serious, but still considers there to be no place for such threats.

He makes a good point because while it seems like people are ok in accepting that sometimes people lose their cool and spout off what should be socially unacceptable behavior, it’s not. Any and all threats like that should be taken seriously by CCP, because they can’t afford not to.

Gigx may not have seriously meant anything by it, but how do you determine that for everyone that may make threats in such a way? 99 out of 100 times you may be safe in that the threat won’t be acted upon, but what would CCP do in the case of that 1 out of 100th time where someone does something truly horrific or disturbing?

None of us should just shrug it off. Most of us playing this game are adults or young adults entering real society. Being crossed and backstabbed in a video game is not the worst that’s going to happen to you.

What actual harm was committed? If you’re referring to Gigx being reported, then see above.

You sure as hell do. Contacting the authorities should be your first priority, but you would be wise to inform management so they can take steps of their own to see if something like that can’t be prevented.

This is talking about literal impersonation. Like I can’t walk around saying I’m The Mittani. It falls into the same vein where you can’t name your Upwell structures the same or even remotes looking alike another with intentions to scam.

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137

I know little of this latest kerfuffle, but as I understand it much of the bad behaviour was streamed live on Twitch, and more conclusively/damningly admitted to by GigX and he apologized for it. There is no doubt that rules were broken and appropriate punishments handed out. These facts are independent from whatever The Judge did or did not do.

I am not going to play space lawyer with you, but if you think The Judge also broke some rules and have supporting evidence, I encourage you to file a petition and perhaps CCP will look at it. If they don’t act and you are still sure you have something, then take it directly to the player base on an independent platform like Reddit to spark up some pitchforks and if the pressure gets high enough, perhaps you will see some action then.

But really, aside from as a lesson as to what type of game play is allowed and what is not (TL;DR: stealing corp assets → A-OK, threatening real-life mutilation → permaban), the punishment side of this incident is really none of our business. Perhaps The Judge did get a temporary ban or warning for violating some rule. We don’t know and they won’t tell us.

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138

I don’t know why you think I’m asking you for advice. And you seem rather confident that you already know the outcome of a petition some person could make in the futre, who knows what it would say or which CCP employee would field it or what kind of mood they would be in that day . . . it’s almost as if you are trying to present yourself as a representative of CCP Games. You should probably make it a little clearer that you are speaking for yourself. You don’t know the minds of others nor can you predict the future.

For my part, I’m just some Schmoe trying to have a friendly discussion about the game. Im not much interested in your psychic fortune-telling advice on what I should do about something that has almost nothing to do with me. But feel free to continue giving your opinion on that matter, but could you also explain why you think Gigx suffered no emotional harm. What compelled him to make such a stupid mistake?

Let’s be real. He could have just been more polite about inquiring as to The Judge’s physical whereabouts if he really intended to harm him. If he was completely unaffected and in total command of his faculties, why did he cross such a clear and bold line by threatening another player? Why?

139

The Judge was streaming alliance chat. He could have had any number of people report the offensive behavior. The Judge also went to comment later that he didn’t think that the threat was serious, but still considers there to be no place for such threats.

He makes a good point because while it seems like people are ok in accepting that sometimes people lose their cool and spout off what should be socially unacceptable behavior, it’s not. Any and all threats like that should be taken seriously by CCP, because they can’t afford not to.

Gigx may not have seriously meant anything by it, but how do you determine that for everyone that may make threats in such a way? 99 out of 100 times you may be safe in that the threat won’t be acted upon, but what would CCP do in the case of that 1 out of 100th time where someone does something truly horrific or disturbing?

None of us should just shrug it off. Most of us playing this game are adults or young adults entering real society. Being crossed and backstabbed in a video game is not the worst that’s going to happen to you.

What actual harm was committed? If you’re referring to Gigx being reported, then see above.

You sure as hell do. Contacting the authorities should be your first priority, but you would be wise to inform management so they can take steps of their own to see if something like that can’t be prevented.

This is talking about literal impersonation. Like I can’t walk around saying I’m The Mittani. It falls into the same vein where you can’t name your Upwell structures the same or even remotes looking alike another with intentions to scam.

Sorry I just had to copy and paste my last post because you seem to be ignoring direct questions and comments. @Mayhaw_Morgan

We’re playing a game where often times 30+ year old adults act like mentally challenged 12 year olds. I think his maturity level and lack of filter caused this.

Why do people in real life steal? Why do they murder? Why are children molested or abused physically? Why does anyone do anything that is socially unacceptable? I’m not comparing what he said to child molestation, but I’m saying that asking your alliance of thousands of players to find and expose the personal information of another player before you threaten him is… SOCIALLY UNACCEPTABLE!

Who knows, maybe all you people live in some terrible 3rd world country where stuff like this is normal and everyday talk.

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140

Oh, he clearly suffered some emotional harm, but given the fact that this is just a video game, that fact becomes hilarious.

I’d imagine he was compelled to do that stupid thing not only by the intense emotions involved in seeing more than a decade of work go down the drain, but by the knowledge that it was all due to his own failings.

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141

I’m just trying not to monopolize the discussion. And a lot of the points different people bring up are the same and . . . well . . . you seem to be experiencing a little disonance. You’re making appeals to what is socially acceptable to defend someone who did something that is, socially, reprehensible. You’re claiming it’s okay to be bad because CCP said it was okay, but also because there is no bad, therefore . . . be the villain . . . wat?!

For some people it is. That’s actually part of the problem, here, is that different social groups have different social norms. There was an ex-con in another thread, a former prison inmate. Depending on which country, which prison, etc. if you steal a roll of toilet paper, you might suffer extreme physical violence or even death at the hands of another inmate. Coming from such an environment, how are you really supposed to assimilate into a world where someone can betray you, steal all your stuff, and laugh in your face without consequence.

The short answer is: you’re NOT. But some people will try . . . and fail spectacularly. You just don’t know where anybody else is coming from. This game could be someone’s only solace in an otherwise desperate life (probably the major selling point of other games). To simply laugh it off as “just a game” and laugh at them is the behavior of a petulant child. Why should anyone take YOUR advice or adopt YOUR way of viewing the game and the behavior of the people in it?

If I were a less composed person, I might threaten some of you with a spanking, too.
#GigXDidNothingWrong

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There are chat logs dating back many years of Gigx flipping out and threatening people with irl violence. However in this case it just so happened to be caught on stream and the thousands that were watching saw it.

It is illegal in most countries to threaten another person with violence. Just because you are on the internet does not mean you are immune to your laws.

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143

No dissonance there, it makes perfect sense. The part your missing is that there is a difference between real life and video games.

Maybe you need to step away, get some perspective. I don’t know about you, but where I’m at, it’s a really nice day outside…

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144

If you can’t play this game and accept what is and isn’t allowed, then there’s no place for you here… especially when something that is allowed to happen, happens.

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