Criminals running around EVE High Sec with a sec status of -1 to -10 Unchallenged. It has come to my attention that a Criminal can warp over to a player owned structure TETHER them selves to this, outside and still not be able to be targeted by players or concord. This shouldn’t be allowed to happen. They should not be afforded that type of protection. There should be LESS protection for these law breakers , More protection for your average player that just wants to come in and mine ore reprocess it and sell on the market. The people mining ore and reprocessing it making modules and selling on the market ARE the back bone of this game… Another example of a Protected Criminal is the undocking timer… When you undock you have a 5 to 10 sec safety net that you are not able to be targeted by any one…Personally… That needs to change as well. If you are flashy red and or have a sec status of -5 to -10 you should not have that type of protection . Players should instantly be able to target you along with concord. If you want to be a criminal , act like a criminal… Then you need to be treated like one. There are alot of players out there that would make a permanent return to eve if this would happen. What’s some of your thoughts on this … feed back welcome.
CONCORD does not protect, it goes against those who did wrong. There is no protection in Hisec from CONCORD. Your ship is safe as long as you don’t undock.
You know that what you wrote makes no sense? You say that concord don’t protect but then suggest that concord protect while you are docked.
Anyway, even docked you can be scammed. Claiming that being inside station you and your assets are safe is wrong.
Concord punish criminals by destroying their ship. But there is no real long time consequence to being criminal. Security status is a joke.
I think you are conflating the roles of CONCORD and FacPo a bit. That being said, while I wouldn’t want a mechanics change for station undocking timer, there should be some stronger reaction to a known criminal in a system, whether he is currently active or not, Watching a criminal use a public transportation system (gates) freely like everyone else does with no penalties, even monetary, does rub me the wrong way. Yet, while it may appear counterintuitive to protect the criminal class, I fully support someone who wants to persue it, even in HS. A tweaking of the current mechanics is warrented, not the use of a sledgehammer. Any attempt to make it near impossible to be a criminal in HS should NOT be persued or encouraged.
Since you kindly asked for other’s thoughts, and as this is an ongoing discussion point in EVE Online, and has been for some time, I will take you up on your offer:
I disagree, with your assessment, your conclusion, and your proposal.
For these reasons:
Reason One:
Story takes place in 2016. Our hero Scooter McCabe gets hired to redress a wrong done to a lady. In the course of carrying out his commission, he discovers a web of lies and deceits perpetrated against hundreds of new players.
Rather than carry out his commission to the letter he takes a step back, and makes a decision to contact his employers…and the Goon Berrets were born. Hundreds, if not thousands of players, were impacted, all over an insult offered to a lady.
Mr McCabe had high security status, as did our villain. Nothing in your proposal regarding criminals would be applicable to one of the most heinous crimes ever seen in EVE Online.
Reason Two:
The origins of this story go back, for some of the participants, to 2017/2018. The villains employed gankers, and various other tactics to subdue/subborn opposition in their quest for isk domination in their region of highsec. The villainy continued, apparently, until in 2019, a number of groups, acting not in concert, but separately, made a stand against this group’s actions. This stand precipitated the biggest battle ever seen in Highsec. Fought tooth and nail, hundreds of players participated in the overall conflict in an effort to upturn the “might makes right” ethos of the antagonists.
Security status covered the spectrum in this conflict, from high to low.
On both sides.
Reason Three:
Good guy versus Bad guy, a classic tale. But who…is who? The answer to that depends entirely upon where you stood in this conflict.
Religion, sexism, save the newbies, it was all there.
Both sides in the end ganked.
High security status on all sides, and minus 10’s, at least on one side.
The Protected Criminal, at least some of them, took a stand in this story.
Security Status in EVE Online is not a good indicator of maliciousness or morality; it is, rather, a good indicator of how far a player is willing to go, in his actions, in this game.
And now, I come to……
Reason Four:
Right now, @Githany_Red , is standing up and fighting minus 10s. She is writing her story, post by post. She is recruiting and creating content for dozens of players, who participate and or witness her actions.
She and all those others referenced above have become part of EVE Online’s living work of science fiction. They have embedded themselves in the player’s story of EVE.
And I worry that proposals such as yours, however strongly felt, would in the end diminish, or perhaps entirely end this player versus player conflict.
Security Status is an indicator only, not a guarantee of a player’s intent. Players who choose a low security status life in Highsec can be fought, bargained with, change allegiance.
As the voiceover in the EVE Online trailer states……”the empires are losing their grasp.”
Chaos reigns, invaders run roughshod over highsec. Invaders that cannot gainsay their…coding…attack capsuleers every night in highsec. They never miss. They never stop.
They cannot be argued with or bargained with, or banter in local.
And, as Highsec must provide it’s share of “Destruction”, I fear more of….this…is the future your proposal, and proposals like yours would gift every Highsec player. The unstoppable, entirely silent…opposition.
And I would rather face a fallible player, who types in local, than…code.
These are my thoughts and my opinion on your post. If game mechanics in Highsec continue to diminish the attractions of playing as a criminal, in Highsec, the need for Destruction will propel CCP into coding infallible npcs, which will be introduced over time until the npcs entirely replace the diminishing pool of players willing to play as agents for destruction in Highsec.
Thank you for providing me an opportunity to express my views on this matter.
I appreciate it.
Here we go again. Yet another player that thinks EvE is broken because crime isn’t dealt with the way it would in RL …
EvE is not RL. It is a game intentionally designed to be a dystopia…
Crime in EvE is (within the game rules) an intended part of the game, and as such it’s allowed to happen in ways that it wouldn’t be allowed in RL. There is nothing wrong with that. It’s just something you have to learn to deal with.
The “solution” to that “problem” is not to change the game so it more closely resembles what would happen in RL. The solution is for those that have a hard time dissociating fantasy from reality to realise things in a game don’t have to be the way they would be in RL …
You can challenge them. Well the ones under -5 anyway. And the NPCs start challenging them at -2.
They are player owned so the players that own those structures get to decide who tethers to them. If you have an issue with them doing so, you can take the matter up with them, up to and including exploding the structures.
There is. Outlaws have no NPC protection and are free to shoot.
That protection goes to everyone so their game can load properly when the undock. How would it be fair that criminals can be exploded before their game loads and they can take actions?
Doubtful. Up until recently highsec was made safer and safer and player activity there just kept dropping. Regardless, I am sure there are also many players that would come back if highsec crime was more viable and interesting again.
Criminals are an intended profession and have been in highsec since the game launched. There is always room for improvement, but none of your ideas seem like the would make criminal gameplay more interesting.
Well said.
Morality is a subjective term anyway, especially in a videogame.
Case in point.
Criminal status is just a result of actions allowed in the game. Actions that are a normal, healthy part of what makes this game what it is. There are already multiple penalties applied to criminals, so those who do so make a choice whether the penalties are worth the results of the actions that incur them.
They’re killing for Jesse James…isn’t that ok?
First, you can ruin your sec status by PvP’ing in lowsec. Things have gotten better now that neutrals pick up a suspect timer when they enter plexes, but this would punish lowsec pvp’ers who come to HS for no reason.
Second, as others pointed out, this is a game. I trying to balance based upon what would happen in real life won’t necessarily result in a balanced game, nor the most fun game.
Third, most criminal activity has already been severely nerfed, and it now requires that other players make mistakes in order to work/be profitable. That is the space that it exists in. And further nerfs to criminal activity won’t make things more balanced, it will just mean that lazy, impatient, and unknowledgeable players will be able to do stupider and stupider stuff without getting punished for it.
Fourth, I don’t know for certain why CCP introduced the session change timer, but I’d wage a guess it was to stopped players from getting tackled/blapped during transitions. Case in point, I once lost my ship during a battle with heavy tidi in a LS system with a small local market. I decided to reship into a tackle frig so that I could get back into the fight. I undocked, and by the time my screen started fading from black, my alarms were going off because a neut had me hull. Before my client responded to any input, I had lost the ship and was podded. And this was with the session change timer. So I can only imagine how often this kind of stuff would happen if the session change timer was removed. Oh, and in case it wasn’t obvious, losing a ship before you even have the ability to input a command feels absolutely terrible from a player’s perspective. And I don’t care if they are the biggest scumbags to ever fly through the skies of New Eden, that’s terrible game design.
If industry is the backbone of the game, ship destruction is the heart that keeps the blood flowing. Yes industry is important, but so is the rest of the player ecosystem. So maybe stop acting like industry should be venerated and protected. BTW, I used to be an industrialist, and I loved the fact that gankers existed because they kept ganking all my customers and competitors. So, their activity was straight up beneficial to me as an industrialist who knew how to avoid making himself a profitable gank target.
Long story short, players should not be able to do stupid ■■■■ with impunity. So, maybe you should try learning how to not be suitable target for criminal activity, instead of proposing ill-conceived nerfs for criminals.
Really? That was how I fixed mine after ruining it with an excess of ratting.
I think the game works great in high sec, yes its damn hard to anti-gank , just as its hard to gank effectively, i have seen groups from null try their hand at ganking and boy do they fail hard. You get to know who has the skill to complete a gank from start to finish with out bumbling about all over the place.
My only change would be some way of encouraging people to do anti-ganking , without changing any of the rules we have today. Eve needs every type of player from scammers to pirates to bankrobbers and it needs gankers and us. Please don’t stop any group, find ways to encourage us to do it more…
And what that could be i don’t know, any ideas?
You ruined your sec status by ratting and fixed it by PVP?
Do you mean faction standings?
Is this another thread of salt.?
Well thanks to all that gave feed back on this subject. Some of you had valid points. Some of you gave points that was way off the wall. I get that Eve is a free for all, All sorts of activity makes eve what it is. I guess what I was trying to say and some of you took out of context . If you wish to pursue a life of crime in Eve, I’m all for it. GO FOR IT. But once you enter high sec you are not rewarded the luxury of a 10 sec undock timer so that the person you have committed the crime against has VERY LITTLE to NO chance of revenge. OR The fact you can warp over to a player owned station tether your self OUTSIDE of said station and not still be targetable. One person posted contacting the owner… NO… CCP wrote that feature in … They can very easily write that feature out. CCP wrote the feature of a undock timer in … They can very easily write a feature in that if your sec status falls below a certain sec status you do not have that timer. What I have gathered from some of you is, You want to be able to run around Eve committing your crimes with little to no chance of retaliation from the person you committed the crime against. Cause you see… As a miner, an industrialist, mission runner ,or a market trader that person has no fear of an undock timer be it a 10 sec timer or a 0 sec timer. He has no fear of being tethered to a player owned station outside >>>>> He is not a criminal… I’m curious ?? What drives your mentality to think that crime either in RL or in a video game, that committing crimes should be easy?? DO you want a trophy also for just participating?? One post mentioned War decs … No one said any thing about war targets not having a 10 sec timer unless of course you sec status falls below -5. The Criminal should be the one in FEAR of undocking and not the miner or mission runner.
Um. You are the one asking for your game to be made easier. To cripple criminals to the point they can’t defend themselves so you can shoot them easier.
Interesting… Why should my game be hard and yours easy… I’m not the one committing the crimes? As a criminal… You should be crippled.
Well for me. CCP should just disable the red button from starter systems and schools. Players who are currently on a training mission should be invulnerable.
Interesting … Why should the one getting ganked at a gate feed you by buying more ships to be ganked again by criminals?? Why is he being punished?? He is not the criminal. I would think it should be the other way around. The ones doing the ganking should be feeding the indy people by buying ships and mods that they want to set at a gate and attempt to gank a freighter coming thru. Or warping in and ganking a mission runner or miner? It is not ill conceived nerf for a criminal to NOT have the luxury of an undock timer so the person he was trying to gank has little to no chance of revenge. Why do you think as a criminal it has to be easy on you??
Also those people you speak of getting ganked at gates or miner getting ganked…are probably making their own ships and mods there fore not buying yours… The ganker and criminal is the one that is going to the market to buy extra ships and mods to continue his criminal career.