One good thing, at least the skill buckets are finally in alphabetical order.
How is that a good thing? They was sorted the way, that similar skills was closer to each other. For example Shields was next to Armor, Gunnery was next to Missiles and Drones, and Industry was next to Science and Reprocessing. Now you need to look through the hole list to find what you want.
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Because Armor starts with A and Shields starts with S. Knowing I want to look for shields in a list I would look where the S start.
When searching via A-Z why look for S near A. Why wouldn’t the Armor be next to the Shields instead of Shields next to the Armor?
When you look in the dictionary do you find D words next to T words because they have similar definitions?
Lets remove all sorting then. Let all skills be in the same bucket.
Also, lets remove ship classes(frigates/cruisers/etc) and search ships only using alphabet.
Sounds like an amazing ideas! You gonna love to use that 100%
The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
The Good
I love the trained skills cap increase from 50 to 150. I also quite like the little “Training Queue xx/150” counter on the top right of that new “Skills” window.
The Bad
The “previous” Character Sheet looked functional, elegant and balanced. The big character pic on a new one, taking about 30% of it’s space, looks really out of place. If I ever wish to see my character picture, I would surely use the existing “Caharacter Customization” functionality with a FULL 3D pic, rather then this cropped at the bottom one. Seriously, ladies and gentlemen, whenever i go to a Character Sheet, it’s for it’s functionality only. And having a 30% of that window taken by fluff like a disproportional semi-3D pic of my character avatar is thoroughly annoying me. Especially when i do it undocked. It’s just wasted space. And I already know how my avatar looks anyway.
The Ugly
The new “Skills” window is really bad. Ugly bloated mostrosity, an abomination compared to the rest of the EVE. Different font size, styling, layout, colour scheme… It looks like i play not a Sci-Fi space game, but some random browser or touch pad style “Space Mario” rubbish. Due to the font size and the fact that the “Skill Plans” and “Skil Catalogue” both are built into the SAME window, it’s impossible to make it really small, even in a windowed (“floating”) mode.
In conclusion, my suggestion would be to revert the Character Sheet to the previous one by removing the fluff pic on the left & reinstating the Skill Catalogue/Training queue back to where they used to belong. Why would you break good elegant stuff which works really well and is more informative? And add there a button to open a SEPARATE window with all those Skill Plans things so that Skill Plans would not be shoved right into the face to those who does not require them.
P.S. I am sort of a new player, playing for about a year only but the Ship Info (specifically “Traits” & “Mastery” tabs) are more then enough for me to figure out what i need to fly a particular ship. And I cant even see the need to build a specific Skill Plan for myself, as in reality, despite that my main’s skill queue is 390+ days now, I reshuffle it weekly or even more often, as priorities change over time & unexpected things happen rather often, changing the training priorities. So i doubt that i ever use this new “Skill Plan” feature, no mater how wonderful it might be 
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Please, PLEASE!
This:
and this:
WHY???
What exactly was wrong with the old char sheets?
Skill plans an awesome idea, I just don’t know why we always have to take the good with a steaming pile of…
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Honestly, Most others have expressed the good, the bad and the ugly. I’m just really, Really disappointed CCP. The new char sheet and skill browser are both really clunky, annoying and counter-intuitive.
I wish you guys would take some time off sometimes.
3 Likes
Yes this ^
And for the love of god let us drag and drop certificates into the skill queue.
Let us drag and drop certificates as milestones as well.
Seriously this is the first thing that I attempted to do.
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I think that you are making a false comparison between what appears easy to do and what makes sense. It would be easy to click the login button 5 x times in a row but it would not make sense.
This thinking doesn’t take into account how players actually use their skill queues.
For example; I wanted to achieve my Lvl 3 certificate in my Moa. So I opened the information Panel and selected the Mastery Tab and then ‘attempted’ to drag the Lvl III certificate Icon into the skill queue. Similar to the way that you can drag ship icons and module icons into the queue. This ‘intuitive’ -expedient- action failed to produce the desired result.
I then attempted to drag the sub header ‘Core Spaceship Operations’ -clicking and dragging produces a Ribbon Icon- hoping that this would add the entire first category:
Energy Grid Upgrades III
CPU management IV
Electronics Upgrades III
Science I
Power Grid Management IV
Capacitor Systems IV
Capacitor Management III
This action failed to produce the desired result. I also tried to drag the category to the +Milestone drop and discovered that this action fails to produce the desired result.
I then dragged the first skill Energy Grid Upgrades III to the skill queue but it only added Energy Grid Upgrades I. At this point I was annoyed. You must be joking. I cannot even drag the skill level across. I now have to click it three times. I can feel myself getting annoyed just recalling it, I’m now wondering, has any body thought about this or used the actual function with an actual purpose in mind? But it’s not over yet.
When you’ve dragged a sufficient numbers of skills into your queue so that the right side scroll column function is activated, you can then no longer drag skills across, keeping in mind that there are 55 base skills for a Moa certificate 3. At that point you have to either know off the top of your head in which skill bucket each of the skills are or you have to type the skill names into the search function to find them and add them. That is a hopeless design, time consuming, and stupid way of operating.
Further and this really is the last straw, I either cannot find, or there no longer exists the function to ‘paste from clip board’. So the only other useful way to add to queue that used to exist is gone. So instead of making the process better, it’s actually worse… That makes about as much sense as clicking the login button 5 x times.
Think about that user experience for a moment. I have gone from dropping the certificate III into the skill queue as a whole, too dropping the categories, too dragging skills across individually, too clicking and typing in the search function for each skill, 55 times plus ~155 additional clicks to upgrade. And the part of that that your comment addresses is that it’s pretty easy to click the + button 5 times in a row. Granted you were not commenting on this specific experience. But it does suggest ‘strongly’ that the design team have not used the product, have no real idea how the functionality ought to operate, or the barriers that the lack of functionality creates. One might argue that apart from giving skill queues a dedicated window and adding the save queue feature, (which by the way existed in a more expedient format from third party providers outside EVE via the ‘paste from clip board’ function) the experience has worsened. I usually hate reading these types of whiny comments myself but seriously did any body with any intelligence actually use this feature with a purpose in mind? Seriously, I will show myself out.
There
There are so many additional use issues that my response did not address and that your response does not consider.
To achieve my Moa certificate III, remembering back that that was my initial motivation, the tools I’m presented with to accomplish the task are clunky and uninformative- similar in nature to the absurdly designed Planetary Interactions UI, Fleet Formation tool, Corporation Permissions Setting process, and the feature for setting a customised orbiting distance, etc… - I do not wish that experience even upon Arrrggg them self.
To achieve a skill plan that reflects the pre-requisites set by the certificate III, I realise that it is up to me to decide whether I add all 55 base skills at lvl 1 and then comb through and click each lvl 1 skill to add it’s lvl 2 equivalent and then comb through and click each lvl 2 skill to add it’s lvl 3, further down the list again, so on and so on.
It’s also up to me to decide whether I upgrade to lvl 3 each of the 55 skills as I add them and then retrace my steps and sort them into position afterward. Or any combination thereof that I decide.
However, it’s not clear from looking at a lower level skill in the queue what’s the highest level upgrade of that skill that has been added -by me or automatically by the pre-requisite system- to the queue plan so far. Nor is it possible to know how long it will take to train, or how many skill points will be required, or which skills are that skills pre-requisites. That information is not visible. Instead it is hidden by the bulky non-resizable column scroll or, as is the case with the later three pieces of information, completely non-existent.
When I hover over a skill I expect to see this information. How am I to design the most effective skill queue without this. it’s more important to have that information available here -in the planning stage- than within the actual training queue.
I am resigned to the fact that I must consult the Information Dialogue box / Mastery tab / Sub header, to cross reference which skills in that certificate are at what lvl and then scroll up and down the column to check that my skill plan reflects this. But not being able to see what is the highest lvl added so far without searching all 155 or more added skills, not knowing the time till learned or points progression of a queued skill during the planning stage makes no sense.
The UI is cumbersome, the font size is non customisable. The dialogue box is unyielding, the columns cannot be customised, and there is superfluous amounts of empty column space, including the graphic for the completed skill plan ticket which is unnecessarily oversized. There are decorative decals that take up the majority of the screen in the Air introductory graphic and provide no actual use other than to point at the Air Icon which is clearly visible in the middle of the screen. There is more information included in the form of empty unnecessary space, than there is information that ought to be included that is quintessential to the purpose of planning. And there is a lot of information that is quintessential to the purpose of planning that has not been included, so you can only guess at how much unnecessary space there is. Are there hidden containers within the empty column space outside the reach of Capsuleers?
Features such as the ability to nest the dialogue box, activate light background, screen lock, compact mode, enable always above, are missing.
Maybe that is not what you designed it for, perhaps then you did not design it for what it is used for.
I use skill plans to:
Save time, so I can fly more.
Share efficient skill builds with my friends and fellow Capsuleers.
Expedite the development of fitting doctrines. Attaching a skill plan to a fitting doctrine to optimise and specialise an outcome.
Train new corporation members into roles.
Offer guidance for New Bros within the corporation, which may outline the skills required for a career path, activity, or ship or fitting.
The ability to create a plan quickly and communicate it to others is important. You could nearly put a price on a good skill plan.
Your example seems a bit extreme to me.
It was an example of my actual experience. I described to you my exact actual experience. I described what I did. You’re suggesting that what I did was extreme?
That is to say that in your opinion, creating a skill plan to achieve a lvl 3 certification for a Moa is extreme.
What is not extreme in your opinion?
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This a link to a skill plan for a Passive T3 fit for gamma sites.
You can find the actual page here:
I challenge you to create that skill plan using the skill plan feature. Previously you could paste that plan from clip board. I challenge you to create the skill plan below using the skill planner as easily as that. Theres 85 seperate skills there each of which is upgraded.
Description
Passive T3 fit for gamma sites.
Skills
- Armor
- Level 3 Hull Upgrades
- Level 3 Mechanics
- Level 3 Repair Systems
- Total Skillpoints in Group: 32,000
- Drones
- Level 4 Drone Avionics
- Level 2 Drone Durability
- Level 3 Drone Interfacing
- Level 3 Drone Navigation
- Level 4 Drone Sharpshooting
- Level 5 Drones
- Level 5 Light Drone Operation
- Level 4 Medium Drone Operation
- Level 2 Minmatar Drone Specialization
- Total Skillpoints in Group: 755,164
- Electronic Systems
- Level 1 Electronic Warfare
- Level 1 Propulsion Jamming
- Total Skillpoints in Group: 1,250
- Engineering
- Level 3 Capacitor Management
- Level 3 Capacitor Systems Operation
- Level 4 CPU Management
- Level 3 Electronics Upgrades
- Level 4 Energy Grid Upgrades
- Level 4 Power Grid Management
- Level 4 Weapon Upgrades
- Total Skillpoints in Group: 319,539
- Gunnery
- Level 2 Controlled Bursts
- Level 4 Gunnery
- Level 2 Motion Prediction
- Level 3 Rapid Firing
- Level 2 Sharpshooter
- Level 3 Small Energy Turret
- Level 2 Surgical Strike
- Level 2 Trajectory Analysis
- Total Skillpoints in Group: 90,881
- Missiles
- Level 1 Heavy Missiles
- Level 4 Light Missiles
- Level 3 Missile Bombardment
- Level 5 Missile Launcher Operation
- Level 2 Missile Projection
- Level 4 Rapid Launch
- Level 1 Rockets
- Level 1 Target Navigation Prediction
- Level 2 Warhead Upgrades
- Total Skillpoints in Group: 488,399
- Navigation
- Level 2 Acceleration Control
- Level 3 Afterburner
- Level 2 Evasive Maneuvering
- Level 1 High Speed Maneuvering
- Level 3 Navigation
- Level 2 Warp Drive Operation
- Total Skillpoints in Group: 27,151
- Neural Enhancement
- Level 2 Cybernetics
- Level 1 Infomorph Psychology
- Total Skillpoints in Group: 4,493
- Production
- Level 1 Industry
- Total Skillpoints in Group: 250
- Resource Processing
- Level 3 Mining
- Level 3 Salvaging
- Total Skillpoints in Group: 32,000
- Rigging
- Level 1 Jury Rigging
- Total Skillpoints in Group: 500
- Scanning
- Level 1 Archaeology
- Level 1 Astrometric Acquisition
- Level 1 Astrometric Rangefinding
- Level 3 Astrometrics
- Level 1 Hacking
- Level 3 Survey
- Total Skillpoints in Group: 36,750
- Science
- Level 4 Science
- Total Skillpoints in Group: 45,255
- Shields
- Level 1 EM Shield Compensation
- Level 1 Explosive Shield Compensation
- Level 1 Kinetic Shield Compensation
- Level 4 Shield Management
- Level 4 Shield Operation
- Level 4 Shield Upgrades
- Level 1 Tactical Shield Manipulation
- Level 2 Thermal Shield Compensation
- Total Skillpoints in Group: 276,859
- Social
- Level 3 Social
- Total Skillpoints in Group: 8,000
- Spaceship Command
- Level 1 Amarr Frigate
- Level 1 Amarr Industrial
- Level 3 Caldari Cruiser
- Level 3 Caldari Destroyer
- Level 3 Caldari Frigate
- Level 2 Gallente Cruiser
- Level 3 Gallente Destroyer
- Level 3 Gallente Frigate
- Level 1 Mining Frigate
- Level 3 Spaceship Command
- Total Skillpoints in Group: 122,461
- Targeting
- Level 3 Long Range Targeting
- Level 3 Signature Analysis
- Level 3 Target Management
- Total Skillpoints in Group: 32,000
- Trade
- Level 1 Marketing
- Level 2 Trade
- Total Skillpoints in Group: 2,165
- Total Skillpoints: 2,275,214
- Total Number of Skills: 85
SCREEN ESTATE! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, FIRE THE UI DESIGNER.
or allow us to disable tablet mode.
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What I’m saying is that I don’t think your experience meshes with my own and most other people that I’ve talked to. So far, the folks who have been putting together skill plans have been focused on specific ships and modules, rather than skill mastery levels. I do think you should be able to drag the mastery level over into a skill plan, but honestly I don’t know many people who actually pay attention to the mastery levels. They are pretty much meaningless other than as a milestone for your skill training.
Sure. Get the fit, get the ship, drag it and a bunch of the modules into the skill queue.
There should absolutely be a way to import skill plans (and export them) and I expect they’ll get that in eventually.
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I’ve been told 9 years ago mastery meant nothing and when I help newbros I still maintain that. A small guide maybe, but overall does nothing
Thankyou, and thank you for your reply. As far as replies go, this one was pretty decent.
Compared to EVE’s veteran player base, I’m a veritable beginner so I can’t speak to whether the Mastery levels are meaningful or not. On the matter of Mastery levels I must accept your assessment that they are an arbitrary measure. And I can see how that diminishes their importance to the functionality of the skill plan queue if the argument to add that functionality specifically were the main point.
I will speak to how Mastery Levels appear to a beginner, they appear somewhat important. And I will hazard an opinion and suggest that -the more points I commit the stronger my ship will be.
Again, that may not be as relevant as other factors that a more experienced or veteran player would know and understand, and that a beginner such as myself would not.
Thankyou, you have taught me something and you’ve understood my point that the functionality is limited. Which at this point in time is more important to me than whether we agree on it’s value.
Right. I think we are in agreement regarding the core functionality that I was working to highlight through my sharing of my experience. I love this game and I really hope that they make this good. I really hope that they improve the UI to a point where in which it makes available all the relevant information to planning and has intuitive functionality. There’s is so much about EVE’s design that is elegant and amazing and I guess I’m afraid that in an effort to make things better we will lose what is already good. Sometimes the whole is greater than the sum of it’s parts and when you alter the parts you can sometimes lose a part of that additive value. Thanks.
Yes, well that’s right. That’s the point. Mastery certifications are likely an arbitrary measure in all other aspects of the game aprt from this one function of acting as a milestone for skill development and yet, they can not be added as a milestone. You had one job Mastery Levels. One job! 
After few days passed, I found that I am logging to EvE now no more then for 10-15 min a day just to check my current open sell orders. Not like my usual 6-8 play time hours over last year.
So it looks like this “epic” update was a decent “turn off” from EvE for me, which is probably a good thing as I now have more time to spend on other things…
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