And here we have it again, you not thinking its a problem because you didn’t use yourself I just give up
listen to yourself, just listen to yourself from my point of view, there is no problem with the new UI other than what “you” have experienced.
I’m going to leave this conversation and never return , But I forgive you for your ignorance and limited knowledge of the game you play adios.
It’s both, in combination. At 1080p on a 25" monitor, everything is clear and legible at 90% scaling. It’d probably be ok smaller, too, if they’d let me do that… But, you know, gotta waste that space.
He’s not saying it’s not a problem for you, he’s saying he doesn’t understand. IOW, he’s asking for more information. For example:
Brisc: It’s not about the humber of clicks. It’s about everything that goes with that choice. Example: the presentation of useful information. A set of tabs up top or on the side is cleaner, and while it takes up space, it doesn’t occlude anything. Every time you have a drop-down, that hides information. There’s also the issue of time taken… and the fact that it’s not, in fact, the same number of clicks.
Click on tab, get new information. Click on drop-down… get the list of drop-down options, find the menu-item you want, click on that (look! 2nd click! 100% more clicks!) and then you get the information. So, yeah… right off, that’s slower and more cumbersome. It’s also more effort, attention-wise.
It’s a small thing for you, and for me, too, since I never used those tabs either… but for someone who did use those tabs, that all adds up, especially if you’re doing it over and over again. The difference between Good UX and Bad UX is usually the tiny little bits of wasted time, of extra effort, of additional focus you have to put into things, and how they add up over a dozen or a hundred uses of this piece of the UI or that piece.
Every little bit of ‘more effort’ compounds every other piece. Just like every bit of wasted space makes every other bit of wasted space more egregious. Think about when you’re running late to go someplace… you know, back in the Beforetimes, when people went places.
Everything’s going smooth? Great, everything keeps on feeling like it’s going smooth. 1 or 2 minor hiccups? Easy to deal with, no stress.
But 1 minor delay before you even get out the door… ‘Crap, I can’t find my keys…’ ok, a minute later, you’ve found them… but now you’re sitting there, waiting to pull out of the driveway as one car after another comes along in either direction at just the right intervals to make you keep waiting… and then dammit, of course I just missed the light on this left turn. Now I’ve gotta sit here for another 3 minutes…
Oh, FFS, GET OUT OF THE LEFT LANE IF YOU’RE NOT GOING TO PASS.
ARGH. GDDAMN TRAFFIC
OH SCREW YOU, I JUST DID NOT NEED THE DAMNED RAILROAD CROSSING THIS MORNING
And by the time you get to the office, your whole day is pissing you off.
Take out just one or two of the minor delays… and you don’t even notice the others. Traffic? Well, yeah, it’s normal, man. The train? LOL, turnin’ up the radio cuz this song kicks ass.
To quote the song, man… it’s the little things that kill.
I never said it wasn’t a problem. I said I didn’t have this problem and wasn’t aware of the issue, and asked you why you felt the drop down was worse than the tab, when functionally they’re not that different. I play the game every day, and while I appreciate your forgiveness, I don’t think I’ve done anything to require it.
Good luck.
When is a lock not a lock ?
When its implemented by ccp I guess.
When a window is locked , collapse should not be an option in the context menu . The window is locked !
also
I would prefer not to have the padlock icon in the title bar of windows.
It is a rarely used option once set. so this is better in the context menu.
5 x annoying don’t click by mistake icons on my ui.
OK, now that you have forced everyone to use Photon UI, there are some improvements you can make to make it a little less terrible:
Reduce the horizontal spacing between lines in the overview. There is far too much scrolling as it is at the moment.
Reintroduce the vertical lines between columns in the overview. This would make it easier to distinguish the columns, at the moment it is just a big blob of text.
In the drone window, remove the drone icons and therefore reduce the horizontal spacing in compact mode. They are not needed and that would make the compact mode, actually compact. There is virtually no difference between the drone window modes at the moment.
The speed shown in the capacitor is really hard to read. Revert it back to the original colours.
Make the channel tabs blink permanently. at the moment, if you are looking away from the screen for a few seconds, you miss the blinks and have no idea anything has happened.
Give more options in the colour themes. Specifically a black background, as this gives the most contrast and causes less eyestrain.
We’ve been going in circles on Photon ever since it first hit Sisi.
Players complain about the insane amounts of useless space, padding, strange fonts and buttons being all different sizes and moved to strange locations.
CCP seem to totally ignore it and move on to the next stage of the rollout.
Players bring up the same concerns once again…
And round and round we go.
And here we are, 18 months on with the exact same concerns being voiced by players and nothing seemingly being done about it.
Instead we have the CSM attack dogs doubling down, dismissing concerns as illegitimate because a majority of the player base have meekly accepted a poor UI and trying to block out all debate with white noise.
Photon’s added functionality is great.
It WORKS better.
It looks like trash.
Sorry, did I miss a second CSM posting in the thread, that you’re using the plural here?
Also, Brisc’s not an attack dog. He’s responding with his impressions, but I’m confident he’s also making sure to note all of the specific issues being highlighted, so he can give them to CCP. Doing one doesn’t prevent him from doing the other, just like being right about going in circles on Photon since its debut doesn’t prevent you from being wrong about the number of ‘CSM attack dogs’ in the thread. 
Since someone mentioned assets window in here , where is the option to expand the contents of a container such as BPCs/BPOs with just a click in a subfolder within the assets window ?
It is now gone and you have to do it the old way by clicking on the container and right clicking view contents or double click it.
well i’d just like to say that some part of ‘looking better’ is automatically ‘working better’ in terms of Form Follows Function, not getting at you @Cade102, thx for bringing it up
i had to stop myself degenerating into a rant about fonts, and legibility, at this point.
OK, if we take it that part of the job of a UI, is as a machine for giving you information efficiently, without making your eyes hurt for example; then there’s a part of that mechanical purpose of a UI that that’s effecively also better if the thing ‘looks nice’.
Photon looks worse IMHO, because of:
the colors/contrast values make my eyes hurt, and aren’t really changeable
the removal of lines between things… that helped the eye move easily between information without getting lost, borders, etc, it makes it ergonomically worse
adding that appalling, idiotic drop-shadow on absolutely bloody everything, when it should only be on big bold display text items only. Why did you do this?
Making these things look worse, also makes the UI work worse. It’s not a question of “I don’t like it” there are objective physical things that work better/worse for making text/info easier/harder to read
As a market trader making the rounds, I appreciate quick access to what assets I have in the current region, vs what is simply nearby, regardless of region. How many stations have how much stuff that was bought this month (I don’t use external tools to keep track this for me.) I could also look in Order History, but when I’m tooling around in an occator making pickups or restocking X, I’m more often in the assets view.
Click the drop down menu (the 3 dots) on the drone window. One of the options is to toggle between “icons” and “list” modes. A few people have commented that compact should default to “list” (and I agree with them), but at least the option exists to remove the unnecessary pictures from this window.
Amen! The massive amount of bright gray began to give me a headache along with eye strain. There apparently are lines (“separators”) of 1 pixel wide lines using 10% white - which gets lost or swallowed by all the gray.
I’d kill to have a black color scheme option. I had been using “Dark Matter” if I recall. I have a visual condition that needs dark (black) using high contrast to avoid eye strain. It’s apparently called “Photophobia” - no, it’s not a “fear of light” - look up the definition.
I’ll end with: what’s with the station icons when docked are so much smaller than the size of my own icons in my sidebar menu? Talk about strain trying to make sure you hit the right desired button…
What I am hoping for is eventually we get to the point where you can customize the ui colors, fonts, etc, using a rainbow wheel like many other games have. I know that wasn’t possible in the old UI, and I expect that is where we are heading. At that point, folks should be able to make these changes and the complaints about colors will hopefully end. At least, that’s what I am going to start pushing.
you don’t have to have a feature where users can customise the colours to avoid eye-strain, if those colours don’t tend to cause eye strain in the first place.
If only every person suffered eye strain in exactly the same way, so this could be fixed once and never impact anybody.
have you changed the font/colour scheme on your Windows PC? No? why not?
look, it’s not people’s preference that causes eye strain: go to town, by a yellow pen, spend the next week at work writing notes in yellow pen, on white paper: your notes will be incredibly annoying to read, because that’s how the eye objectively works, it’s not a preference thing. ditto Photon
It would be logical , along with fixing other current issues that the new UI has, for which is just a question of time and I hope it won’t take them a year …
Next would probably be the HUD and new modern icons for guns and modules , like the ones that already exist in Eve Echoes, one of the very few things that I like in there.
If only there were some simple features (like lines to separate information) which universally reduce eye strain. Imagine using excel without lines to demarcate cells?
It would be lovely to see a return of RGB color sliders, in some fashion. I think it was possible to hose yourself - leading to support tickets - if the same color for foreground and backround was chosen. The preset “color themes” ensured this couldn’t happen.
Check out my “what da heck colors is THAT” screenshots from 2012 in this other thread.
Keep the color themes, but let us customize with a color picker: 16 to 32 shades, from grimdark to dayglow orange would make a few people happier.