Waist? Seriously?

It is already in the game. No one can refine with 100% efficiency. THAT IS WAIST!
It seems that CCP has decided that rather than making those who have suffered a blow already, not take another hit. The best is, perhaps in their thinking, to spread it around.

Why not just reduce the efficiency when you turn raw products into minerals. Problem solved! Many who have leveled their skillls will be unhappy (including me) Sure you will piss off those who have trained skills to refine (perhaps on alts) , but this is way more efficient than pissing on your entire playerbase.

Perhaps I can get 10-20% 0r even 30% less materials when I refine ore or Ice. It means buyers will want to pay less. If my competitor does not agree, he/she will offer it for more. That is much more elegant than this game breaking process of waist in 1) harvesting 2)compressing 3) reprocessing.

This is one place that simplicity in the game can be imagined. I value the game’s complexity, but please do less to overturn the base of the game.

1 Like

Must resist urge for pun.


believe me if i could get rid of my waist i would… but its here to stay…


I say we return to the original days of 100% perfect refine after grinding standings with NPC corps.

1 Like

I’m actually looking forward to waste in harvesting. It’s the most exciting thing to happen to mining since I started playing, and probably ever. I am sure that it will provide for new scumbag and emergent game play opportunities, and possibly even new economic warfare opportunities as well.

Most miners, however, seem to have become accustomed to low-effort/low-attention isk making, and are therefore opposed to a mechanic that threatens the status quo. I mean, who wants increased competition and conflict in their PvP game when they can instead drop drones, go afk, and wait for their orca(s) to fill with ore? Amirite?

Now, I suppose that it can be argued that this is an attack on the miner’s play style. I mean, Eve is a PvP game, but that doesn’t mean that everyone here is looking for conflict at all times. However, I also seriously doubt that this means that mining will be turned into a constant conflict that makes it impossible for miners to chill and socialize. Moreover, a least some of the complaining over these changes isn’t coming from people who actually like mining, but from people who have been mining simply because of it’s low effort/low attention isk making. I mean, listening to them would be like listening to semi-afk plex farmers over how FW should be balanced.

Regardless, I see an opportunity for fun and profit, and I hope to god that CCP doesn’t reverse course because of how much complaining miners have been doing.



Call Him a Troll



The irony.


OP I put together an image for you, I hope it helps.


Now I’m absolutely no expert on waist measurement, but in that image I do think that covering the first two inches of the tape with your thumb would lead to an overexaggeration of your waist. Not to mention the measuring tape is slanted…

Do you think this will be the new tactic of miners? Give exaggerated measurements of their waist in the hopes that CCP will reduce their big waist?

If condescension is on the screen above the buttons in your little image, then its the red button every time.

Says the bitter vets that say that think they know better than the incompetent devs who are “ruining the game.”

Sigh, I was trying to have a serious discussion. Got called a troll. Made a comment on the absurdity of it. Get told I’m condescending. What’s next, am I to be accused of being intellectually dishonest? A secret dev alt? Getting paid to shill for CCP?

Here’s an idea, how about you guys actually try addressing the points I actually made.


Waste introduces a choice between getting as much out of every asteroid/moon/gas field as possible, or getting as much as you can in a limited amount of time but causing waste. This change will have the effect of making 50 people mining a field at the same time and using waste will kill the field off faster then if they were using slower mining but with less waste. For smaller groups or solo players in areas that are not very populated they can harvest and cause waste and in many cases it wont impact them if the field is big enough they couldn’t mine it all in a timely manner any way.

The whole waste mechanic as I see it is actually one of the few times i see something being somewhat more negative for large groups then small groups which many people complain about being a problem in this game.


They won’t cause all they got is salt :smiley:

i knew it!!!

Yeah, you probably haven’t heard of me. I’m CCP Ness.

1 Like

It seems like ‘waste’ is going to be called ‘residue’.

Hopefully that may stop people from talking about waists.


People will still keep talking about “loosing” their ships. :facepalm:

History of mining in Eve

Beta: Hop in your frigate and mine with your mining 1 lasers. Collect ore, return to station and refine into minerals and build things. If you’re cool, do it in a group. The idea of 10 boxing eve not yet conceived because frankly, Eve wasn’t very good yet and most PCs weren’t up to the task of 10 boxing.

Release: Hop in your cruiser with many more turrets and mining 1 lasers. Mining laser 2 if you were a boss in a big bad bob alliance.

Post Release: Introduction of industrials. Repeat as before. Mine with as big a ship as you can, preferably something with 8 turrets for all of the mining laser goodness. However comma, dump cargo into space, and team mate picks up with his newly researched and built Iteron Mk5, which was the biggest and baddest of them all.

Some other obscure update: introduction of freighters. Now lots of ore can be moved from station to station. Markets begin to emerge. Jita is king.

Another obscure update: CCP decides that mining laser 2s are just no good and people shouldn’t have to use battleships and cruisers to mine tritanium. Good for them. Someone has a brain. A mining dedicated ship is introduced. Mining barges/exhumers with stripper miners 1s because no one likes crystals. Mining is harder but more efficient. Miners are happy. Efficiency is good… PVPers are happy. Mining barges are easier to kill than a battleship. (debatable). Content is created. Mittens is happy. Sir Molle rejoices.

Update number whatever: Freighters can now deposit giant things into space. Like player built station eggs. And Enormous freight containers. Exhumers can suddenly super efficiently mine while orbiting enormous freight containers. Freighter is now possible to be used as transportation to/from mining site. Whole belts are being mined. They instantly respawn, but most people aren’t aware or care about this because most people continue to not 10 box or 20 box mining toons. Efficiency hasn’t been mastered yet but content seekers rejoice. Generally accepted as a positive update.

Rorqual capital ship introduced. Rorqs park inside POS shields and send YUGE boosts to mining fleets somewhere else in the system. Miners love it. It’s absolutely great. PVP content seekers see no direct bonus as a rorqual is invincible inside a POS shield but more miners mine than ever. The economy is pleasant. People are happy. Freight containers pop everywhere.

Commence Shitting on Miner update: Someone at CCP decides that a customer purchasing an account and a monthly subscription to sit in a ship inside a shield is not good for the game. Even though dozens of associated accounts (and income sources) are sitting in an asteroid field somewhere. It’s decided that boosts can’t be rendered from within POS shields because wah wah OP. PVP content lovers herald this as a great update since they like to pew things. I agree with the PVPers. Miners are annoyed because NOW they need to move their ship 1m outside of the shield. Preferably next to a gun that pews. No content is created/destroyed with this update. It is an annoyance to miners but at no cost to efficiency.

Irrelevant update: Orca/Porpoise/other odd miner centric ships added/tweaked. No real content created or destroyed. Except a few dumb people who lose orcas chocker block stuffed with BPOs. Whoops. But these are isolated instances.

Mining now continues like this for about what, 5 years? No problems, no complaints, everyone is happy and develops their characters based on the game’s mechanics.

Now, fast forward to about 2014-2015. CCP devs get this idea that they need to fix a system that has functioned without any huge problem for years. Like years not being an understatement. It lasted from the beginning of my military enlistment until the end, these years were OK. Mining was fine. – Then CCP said nah. Let’s wreck our game. Let’s start with POS shields and on grid boosts… Rorq pilots (100% alts of miners) were like huh wait what? We need to do things? And we will be immobile siege mode? We gonna die. This = bad. And CCP agrees that this is bad so they are gonna make Rorqs able to mine 10 times as much as a hulk, the current best miner in the game. And get an invulnerability shield and can cyno and CAN DO LOTS OF THINGS to counter this HUGE nerf. However, this changes the meta. 10x hulk means every hulk pilot MUST convert to rorqual to remain competitive. Hulk pilots were like 6b isk fully trained. Not including the hull and fittings. Without irony, CCP releases injectors around this period of time. So no problem, at a “little” cost of 75% of your skill points, you can retrain into a capital ship rorqual for the little price of like 18b per account not including hull price (large) and drone price, which we will also make comically large at 1.5-2b per drone at the time. RIP. Miners are furious but commit to the new mechanics based on the promises of the devs that rorqs will be better.

Miner Hate update #1: Rorquals are immediately seen as OP. They mine whole belts in hours by themselves. CCP must “fix” this. So yields are drastically reduced to about 4x a hulk. Still amazing. But “not as great” as before.

Miner Hate update #2: Rorquals still borking the market with huge yields. CCP reduces the travel speed of drones to compensate. A Rorqual now yields a peasantly 1.5 times a boosted hulk. PVPers love the new content. Drone kill mails are a thing. MJD drone far away, pew it, rinse, repeat. My killboard is lovely.

Miner Hate update #3: Miners are resilient and haven’t mass quit yet so CCP says asteroid belts shouldn’t respawn instantly. Now you need to wait / or move your fleet to a different system. Miners are furious. Multiboxing all these rorquals has already become hell, not to mention the necessity to be in a huge titan backed fleet to protect your assets. PVPers don’t care. This has no effect on their content creation/removal.

Fluff update: Moon mining is introduced: This has no impact on the actual mining meta of Eve but forces a tedious and unnecessary mechanical replacement for an automated POS mining system. The majority of miners see this as tedious, unnecessary, and irrelevant. CCP surely rejoices at their own creativity. PVP content may/may not have been created due to this update. It’s hard to tell since so many miner have already quit mining to do other Eve monotonous tasks like incursions; which are now more profitable, or mother ship ratting and in some cases, titan ratting, because like mining, CCP nerfed tf out of titans super early on with the removal of their original DD.

Miner Hateupdate #4: Quantities in existing asteroids reduced because too much market corruption has already occurred. Miners are on the edge. Livid. Most have quit already or begun selling assets because the “don’t worry, your rorqual will be great now” promises of CCP have been exposed as complete BS. PVP content is reduced due to removal of miners from the game. Dedicated miners with 10+ accounts have had it. Accounts are unsubbed. CCP has succeeded in doing the one thing that a company ought not to do: kill off their income purposefully.

Miner Hate update #5: I’ll give CCP credit. They waited a little while to completely bork the industry in Eve; Making decisions without actually playing the game is pretty easy though, so let’s introduce waste; and make Rorquals completely obsolete. Orcas are boosted though, which is irrelevant already. PVP content almost completely destroyed except for the rare instance of masochists who continue to mine out of habit or necessity, than enjoyment. I’m not shocked by this vagrant disregard for player base opinions. It’s normal in an old game like Eve, but since there are already better games in the pipes, it’s a non issue. I have kept my account subbed for the last 3 years, in the off chance that CCP gets bought up by a competent publisher. That seems unlikely. But I do have 300m SP now, so station spinning in our “forever immortal player built stations that can now be killed” is a little nicer with a big number next to my char sheet.