We have reach 10 final liminality system
If you’re going to betray almost everybody you ever met, you could at least try to see what your new masters care about, Mr. Kybernaut. Ten isn’t even a multiple of three. 9 (3^2) was probably more important to your masters. Also I gather they gave you sort of a shopping list. They didn’t seem too happy at last review.
They might really care a lot when you get to 27 (3^3) final liminalities, but maybe not if their strategic objectives haven’t been met?
Until then, I wonder when Cpt. Elkin’s next hunting fleet is. “Steve” isn’t the only one who’s earned a little pain.
2 Likes
Not evrything need to be multiple of 3
Sure, but if you’re still putting your announcement-worthy “significant progress” marks in base-10, you might be on the wrong side, Mr. Kybernaut. Triglavian society is going to take some getting used to. You might as well get started.
Unless you just came for the toys, in which case you should maybe ask yourself what happens when the Triglavians decide you’re not conforming adequately.
1 Like
So …
I wasn’t going to write anything about Arshat until Niarja was decided, one way or the other.
Well, it’s decided. And, I don’t feel all that much like writing about Arshat. I will a little anyway.
A system clawed back out of liminality: that’s not nothing. It’s pretty good actually, a first. Yaaay.
Niarja, though.
In addition to the usual (HORRIBLE) effects of final liminality, the path to Jita’s a lot longer today than it was yesterday. At least from Amarr. What this means, practically, remains to be seen. My guess is it’ll weaken the market at Jita and strengthen Amarr. The trade route between the two is probably about to become as profitable as it is long. (It wasn’t awful, profit-wise, to begin with.) Maybe other ports of call will grow stronger along the way.
Other effects … I guess we’ll see.
Arrendis says Goonswarm backed liminality in Niarja for the sake of severing hostile supply lines. I believe that’s probably true. She probably knows better than I do how much of an effect that had, or didn’t. She also probably knows at least as well as I do what the consequences are going to be, short and long-term-- what was traded for that advantage.
I guess we all have some new realities to adjust to.
4 Likes
You must thanks TEST with their fake proclamation on “we will support edencome”
They basicaly decide the fate of the system
The spillover of the nullsec war into highsec might indeed have decided Niarja’s fate. I don’t think for an instant that it was TEST’s declaration that caused such a thing, though. Goonswarm’s more than good enough to figure out if a certain system’s important to a rival’s logistics.
I do take TEST’s declaration as a bit of a suggestion that their earlier support for the Collective wasn’t a principled one. But, really, was it a matter of principle beyond “smash the status quo” for any of you people? In terms of what it actually represents (other than a society that seems to have literally developed in a hellish netherworld), the Collective’s a complete unknown.
You literally don’t know what you’re fighting for.
I am just happy to make history for once,
If it was good or bad ?
Who knows ? i will let the future students decide that.
1 Like
Oh, pilot. As a general rule, if the answer to the question, “Does this course of action mean betraying nearly everybody I’ve ever met?” is, “Yes!” … maybe you should rethink that course?
I don’t think history’s going to wait to pass judgment in a case like that.
Edencom Defense Initiative (EDI) and other Pro-EDENCOM capsuleers put up a good fight this weekend. System to system, EDENCOM is always there to support and help fellow capsuleers fight back the Triglavians. Pro-EDENCOM capsuleers exhausted all their means and resources this weekend saving Khopa, Anbald, and Arshat. It is very unfortunate that another war’s conflict spilled over to another conflict. Niarja is a terrible loss not just for EDI but for all inhabitants of New Eden. All we can hope now is for everyone To wake up to this formidable but not an indestructible enemy.
A complete unknown? Only to those who are content in seeing their enemies as inhuman.
There is a wealth of information gathered by the Arataka research consortium and scholars like Uriel. Better yet - it is retrieved from their own data systems, not mere propaganda aimed at us.
But you dismiss them without looking. It is like one declaring: I do not read, therefore others have no culture.
And that you see Arshat as a miracle is troubling. We, the Stribog Clade fought hard for that volume, cubic metre by cubic metre. Outnumbered as always, with but a dozen ships and no support from other Kybernauts except for a period of two hours, we helped achieve liminality before redeploying to Konola. We did not return for a variety of strategic reasons. I did not previously believe it, but Edencom’s boasting proves it.
Your miracle is our absence. Your disaster is our presence. A Stribog fleet of twelve.
You should feel shame, not pride. We do not boast numbers or resources or experience or immense skill. Only the determination that comes with fighting for a just cause.
5 Likes
You mean the one that was decimated upon trying to re-enter Arshat?
The main one being that we showed you the door when you tried.
I don’t normally beat my chest over a victory in battle, but you lying about not having tried to return and boasting about how determined your fleet was makes me feel it necessary.
2 Likes
Yes, with even further reduced numbers and in what could most accurately be described in a silly hodgepodge of ships unfit for combat.
Like I said, we do not claim skill in combat or cunning in command. That you see this as a miraculous victory says so much more about you than it does about us. Which was my entire point.
1 Like
It’s not so much miraculous as it was a lot of hard work by people over quite a number of hours.
But I understand that you wouldn’t know that, as you’ve never reversed a Redoubt.
Yeah, I’m aware of it, Mr. Xan. From it, can you tell us, please, exactly what “the Flow” is? How about a day in the life of the average Triglavian-- individual, or, if there are no individuals, then troika?
Is death “real” for them or is there some form of immortality available, similar to ours? Is a given identity only used once at a time, or can one “head” be used in multiple different, concurrent troikas?
What does a Triglavian look like? What are their marriage customs, if any? What, if anything, do they eat? What do they do for fun? (Do they retain a conception of individual “fun?”) What does “playful communion” involve, exactly? What religious beliefs do they hold, if any?
How do they raise their children? Do they have children, as such? Is “childhood” even still a meaningful concept?
What are their ultimate purposes and goals? Do they recognize the right of other nations to exist, or are we all just ultimately to be conquered or destroyed? Why?
Does life other than their own matter to them at all? Do their own lives matter to them at all?
In places we can draw some inferences. They’re mostly not a lot of comfort. From coming of age on, as someone put it, a muddy snowball studded with trees, the Caldari learned diligence, thrift, community, and sacrifice. That included the need for under-performing members of the community (usually the long-term sick or elderly) to be sent for a long walk in the snow if food ran low in the dead of a hard winter. Such persons, sent to join the ancestors, were treated as dead even if by chance they survived. That’s not a custom they totally forgot even when they started living in places with abundant food where literal winter never comes; just ask the Dissociated.
Maybe the Triglavians learned much kinder lessons from the Abyss. Maybe it taught them a profound compassion. Maybe it taught them to look out for those who struggle, to support those who falter and to hold sacred all sapient life-- or all life in general. Maybe they are so advanced in technological immortality that even violent death is no more significant and troublesome than waking from one pleasant dream into another, and this trivialization of death is so much a part of their thinking that they have no conception of the horror of ending one’s only, irreplaceable existence fried to a bulkhead.
But we haven’t seen a lot of reason to think that.
If Caldari Prime taught hard lessons, what lessons did the Triglavians learn?
So, do tell, pilot: what, exactly, is your cause, and why is it just? In detail, please.
We all really want to know.
5 Likes
In fact, as an org, we had no other reason for doing it. I’m the only member of the directorate who’s made any habit of watching the invasion systems. If Legacy hadn’t publically started making a fuss over Niarja, I don’t think we’d have sent a single ship.
As for Vily’s declaration… just words, trying to spin things to play the hero to people she doesn’t think can tell the difference between talk and action. And it blew up in her face. I really don’t know what the heck’s happened to Vily in the last 6 years, but that ain’t the FC I loved to fly with.
3 Likes
So ah…
When is gonna resign Prov Marshal Kasiha Valkanir ?
2 Likes
Dear Aria Jenneth,
while I am not Mr. Xan, I have promised a while ago to Mr. Jaken to answer a similar set of questions and this seems like a good opportunity to adress some points often raised by critics of the Collective and the Kybernauts.
I will preface my following remarks with the caveat that the Kybernauts are a young soical movement and as such do not have the same ideological cohesion then a lot of older organizations. As such, the following answers are my own and another Kybernaut may answer them differently.
I will also preface this with the additional remark, that while I see why you would demand an “exact” standard, I feel that that is unnecessary in many regards, especially when you consider the variance of individual experiences within a society. I wouldn’t be able to “exactly” determine for example the ‘average’ day of a citizen of the Federation as well. Because individual days may be very, very different for someone living on one of the Core worlds and someone living on a world in the diaspora and across social strata etc.
Given that, let’s see to adress some of the questions:
How about a day in the life of the average Triglavian-- individual, or, if there are no individuals, then troika?
Triglavian society is formed by competetion among different tribal institution with different socio-cultural profiles and values. As such I do not think there is a way to determine an ‘average’ day of life as mentioned above. I do think the individual experience is quite heterogenous depending on clade, subclade and individual position.
Is death “real” for them or is there some form of immortality available, similar to ours? Is a given identity only used once at a time, or can one “head” be used in multiple different, concurrent troikas?
At least given the Troikas, death is not ‘real’ in the way a baseliner would expect it. We have evidence of parts of a Troika being able to survive the biological destruction of the narodnya-part.
What does a Triglavian look like? What are their marriage customs, if any? What, if anything, do they eat? What do they do for fun? (Do they retain a conception of individual “fun?”) What does “playful communion” involve, exactly? What religious beliefs do they hold, if any?
The Narodnya-Part of a Triglavian looks basically human. Two Arms, Two Legs. A head. As such they will eat biological matter in some shape or form.
The question regarding individual relaxation activities I can’t answer at this time. But I see no reason to asusme that this would be homogenous across their culture.
A communion in general involves communication and the exchange of information. The adjective descriptor denotes the nature of the communication. A playful communion as such indicates a form of communication that is not hostile in nature.
Regarding “religion” the question would be what you would consider religious and what not. Is a concept like embellished ritual combat a religious element?
How do they raise their children? Do they have children, as such? Is “childhood” even still a meaningful concept?
Another one I cannot answer. Although this is a question that may also be difficult to answer in regards to our civilizations, given the broadness of concepts we are seeing in education. (Not to mention the difference between humans -with and without cloning- and capsuleers.)
What are their ultimate purposes and goals? Do they recognize the right of other nations to exist, or are we all just ultimately to be conquered or destroyed? Why?
Their ultimate goal as a society is structured around survival and the assorted development through competition and adverse selection (not unlike evolution or the scientific method in many ways). More near-term their goals include the return to the ancient domains and removal of certain polities considered anathema to them.
They do know the concept of nations and are not hyper-xenophobic in that they assign enemy-designations to some polities while others are subjected to proving. As proving indicates the ability to prove positive, there are at least circumstances udner which they will acknowledge another polity.
Does life other than their own matter to them at all? Do their own lives matter to them at all?
Yes. Although their definition of life seems to be wider then ours and include, for example, sentient AI.
So, do tell, pilot: what, exactly, is your cause, and why is it just? In detail, please.
For me, personally, the cause is to further the progress of (trans-)humanity:
(1) The Triglavian Collective obviously has a wealth of technological capabilities far beyond that available to the empires of the cluster, at least in certain fields. gaining their cooperation may shave off centuries of time and heavy resource commitments and sacrifices that would otherwise be necessary to attain that knowledge.
(2) The Triglavian Collective does have information about the history back to at least the Second Jove Empire. Knowledge that may very well be lost forever as it is not preserved through the Dark Ages within the Cluster. (As a small aside, if the Triglavians are a surviving nation from the time of the Dark Ages, CONCORD would by its own charter be required to defend their sovereign rights, given that they can be incorporated into a state where that is not superceded by other parts of the charter).
(3) The Collective has shown that it is opposed to some of the worst threats to the cluster, e.g. Sansha and the Drifters. Their cooperation against them may be of invaluable help, especially regarding the latter group.
(4) We do not know what awaits us out there. While we Capsuleers are harder to destroy then humans, but there may be threats out there that will destroy us as easily as them. The Jove, who may have been able to guide us through the crisis of an external threat beyond our current capabilities have withdrawn. As such i think it would be good for the long-term prospect of civilization to have someone else around to fill that role.
While I am not happy about the sacrifices made and the inherent problems in contacting a strange new civilization, I am willing to make these decisions as the potential benefit is of such greatness that we can’t overlook it.
Signed digitally,
Scius Falkenhaupt
Kybernaut Researcher
11 Likes
Therein lies the problem that resulted in our current conflict. Every star has a flag on it, and every star has worlds with people who follow that particular flag. Given that the Triglavians are almost guaranteed to reject subordination to any nation-state or capsuleer alliance they wish to settle in, their next option is to try and negotiate a transfer of sovereignty, in which case the price would likely be so high that it becomes unpopular and unacceptable for both sides (e.g. technology transfers that would severely erode the Triglavians’ technological superiority, the loss of sovereignty for the negotiating empire). That leaves the final resort: seizing it by force.
I’m not entirely unsympathetic to any desire by an ancient people to return to a place of origin, but it’s already way too late for them to become part of the international community in the immediate future, at least from what I can tell. They got lots of blood and torn flags on their hands, against all four sides. It’s going to take a very long time and great effort for them to build any sort of relationship with the current residents of New Eden, barring Kybernauts like yourself.
So … ah. It’s been a while.
I’m sorry, pilots; it’s just been. . . .
I had to step away for a while.
So! Um. New mission! I’m set to be ARC’s observer in Kuharah. And, I’ve just arrived; dodged a bunch of werposts on the way in. And, uh.
Has anybody been watching these? I mean, closely?
“Hi, I’m Kuharah!”
… actually, I don’t feel at all like making light of this. See those flecks of orange on the stellar surface? Yeah, those, um, those aren’t probably original equipment.
Editing to add: also, that orange dot that marks the extraction site? That’s on the other side of the star. Like, well over the stellar horizon. It’s somehow still visible through all that stellar material.
And then there’s this …
There’s a sort of shifting “coating” of translucent orange on the stellar surface, like cloud formations. They fade in and out of visibility. Oh, and fun note? Both those and the orange flecks are about the same shade of orange as a Triglavian disintegrator ray, and we know those aren’t anything as simple and pleasant as solar plasma.
This doesn’t look good, pilots.
Anyway, one way or another I’ll be staying here and collecting data probably until whatever is going to happen, happens. It’s been a little while since I did a long trip like this. Wish me luck.
And wish anybody living here a whole lot more.
4 Likes