Balancing an mmo

Falcon said it best, right here:

I’M TIRED!

I’d rather EVE stay EVE and enjoy it while it lasts than for it to become another watered down mmo with no consequences.

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Its not better. Youre missing out.

The 28 man corp added that two man corp because they blanket dec for content. It takes many many decs for content.

The point of the game is to play. Industry is part of the play. Fighting is another part of the play of he same game.

Having your own corporation includes PVP because it takes the security of the NPC corp away for the risk of fighting to get the better rewards.

You want a structure with industry bonuses and kow tax? Give up the undecable NPC corp. Dont want wars or fighting? Pay 10% tax and have no structure to put rigs in for added industry gains. Risk vs. Reward. A pay to play style I fully stand behind.

Well, the New Pilot FAQ (do new pilots ever read this?) is pretty clear what type of game this is:

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The “core concept” as they describe it is a full-time Battle Royale sandbox environment not very different that the death match survival games like Fortnite and PUBG that are all the rage lately. The only major difference is that it is a persistent, RPG-style one, where the massive free-for-all fight goes on forever.

So like those survival games or RTS games like Starcraft, gathering resources and building weapons of war is an integral part of the game. In fact, to be successful it may be your industrial capacity that is more important in Eve than your tactical or strategic prowess (see: The Imperium). But that doesn’t mean this isn’t a PvP-everywhere and all-the-time sandbox game where exploding spaceships is the core game activity that drives and provides meaning for most other game play, including the industrial side.

Engage with Eve as an industrialist or diplomat or pacifist instead of a warlord, or blood-thirsty pirate. It’s a great game with lots of freedom to play in many ways. But don’t expect to do so in isolation from the other players or immune from PvP. It is a living virtual world where we are all each other’s content and vulnerable to each other’s actions, not some Farmville-style grinding game.

That means players like the one you quoted in the OP are just playing the wrong game. They are looking for a game where the can craft and frolic in peace whereas New Eden is a dystopian, war-torn battlefield that isn’t very conducive to a player looking to engage with it only on their terms, and only experience constant progression with no competition from the other players (AKA PvP). That’s fine. Not everyone has to like the same thing and not everyone has to only like one thing.

Honestly, for every can’t-handle-loss-farmer like that one that quits, there is another industrialist who sticks with the game because of this competition and the value a full-time PvP environment gives to the virtual assets they produce. There really aren’t that many other games out there, maybe none, that create such value for the activities of industrialists, so much so that other players regularly pay them real-world value (via PLEX) for their in-game efforts. That is part of the magic of Eve, although one that seems to be fading each year as CCP caves in to the constant calls for buffs to safety and more wealth in game. CCP could do worse than hire CCP Eyjo or a protégé for a six month contract to take a deep look at the failing economy of this sandbox game a prescribe some fixes to try to get things back on track.

Wars are largely fine. There are some general problems with hunting and station games that has led to a rather stale and atypical meta, but the fact that ‘industrialists’ can be attacked by others isn’t one of them. You can play the game from the safety of the NPC corp and not deal with wars at all. You can return to that safety at anytime. They only thing you can’t do is enjoy the benefits of being in a corp while being immune to attack from another group. But if you want to become a bigger player in controlling (and profiting) from the shared economy, the game puts you at military risk to other groups so you better figure out a way to defend yourself.

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I can’t argue with a single minded person, it only narrows my point of view. To think that EVE is a PVP game because it has PVP ability is narrow minded. I think you belive this so that it justifies PVP.

Is talking in a forum PVP?

Look, PvE stands for Player versus Environment. In EVE are players part of the environment, they are content, and this is not restricted to a single area. So this isn’t about “PvE versus PvP”, but when players are a part of the environment and can be killed just like NPCs does the entire game become a PvP game.

Narrow-minded is to think one could simply divide a game into black & white, into a PvE versus PvP.

Your argument is refuted, by CCP itself. As I cannot take credit for the most succinct answer possible, I’ll quote it. Incidentally it happens to be the reply just above yours.

This new player FAQ is 4 years old… but in that time CCP has not announced any change to this belief, which I’m absolutely certain they would do given they term it an “essential core concept”.

Full. Time. PVP.

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the most elite end game kind of pvp obviously

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where did you find that!? I’ve been looking for something like that but it’s no where obvious on the website, speaking of that I have no idea how to find anything on the website… Thankfully I have the forums/devblog/patchnotes bookmarks from years ago

IMHO, I think you are being black and white about EVE being just a PVP game. Is it nothing else? And that was a long winded backtrack. You might as well call it a station trading game.

In EVE even when you are playing purely PVE ie an A hole, mining, trading, mission running - you are open to player interaction. Some of which is PVP, i.e mostly being ganged up on because that is funnier.

The player interaction does not always have to be adversarial. For instance, PVE groups and mining groups, and even those do those insane burner missions, or those that mostly just hang out in chat.

I get it. You think you bought a PVP game, and get frustrated when no-one wants to fight. They have auto-rejected duels, they don’t go to low sec, WH, or null. It so boring.

Perhaps they are not playing the game right! LOL. or god forbid you are.

It’s a sand box. PVP all you want, gang, join faction wars, live in WH, low, null. There is plenty of PVP content.

But please remember there are some players that think cooperation and growth is a more worthy sentiment than, “everything that moves in EVE is content”, and “It’s a PVP game.” These are just your opinions, and that of some others.

Imagine if it was EVE verses Players, instead of PvP. It would be boring because everyone would have a Titan. It would be one big blue blob. Perhaps you might get some friendly duels, like in King Arthur’s day.

But obviously, you don’t mean EVE is solo PVP environment. Sorry I challenge your thinking on EVE is just a PVP game. for many, it is not. I just wondered where you got this notion, and you have only proved it’s your own opinion.

BTW I hope we both get better at PVP, our killboards are pityful.

Let’s put it this ways. CCP has redefined what a PvP game can be. The old school PvP games, where one pops out of a spawn point, runs around to pick up weapons, armor and ammo, are a long stretch away from what CCP has created.

1v1 the sun, when the server is back up. And before that I’ll show you how to set up a pod saver tab on your overview.

I have a better idea. You put your guns down and I show you how to be a cog in the wheel, to support others, to keep the trade running, to haul other players’ stuff and so they don’t have to, and to allow them to focus more on their fight.

Gun put down, I’m an industrialist, hauler, trader, pacifist, just like you.

I was merely offering a consensual duel. Probably in t1 frigates. But I having seen your loot drop on the Minmatar Event, I think you don’t need any help.

So what are you using, magic/kryptonite/Fed navy o.0gres/Níðhöggr*?

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Níðhöggr*

Even in pure PVE games players get angry when they have to drag along special snowflakes that insist in doing everything their own and needlessly weaksauce way.

And when you choose to explode alone out there again and again I wouldn’t call those that team up “antisocial”. They may be meanies, but they did socialize.

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No. Simply own the mini-game, own the site and ignore everyone else. Put on some music and hack over everyone, get on top of the BS and loot it’s wreck asap, and so on. And never break a sweat. And when you don’t win the BS, then just pack up and go for the next site. New site, new luck.

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What a loser, didn’t even read the ■■■■ FAQ but thinks he knows what’s going on.

Eh no. As a new pilot I have never heard of it. But I also answered my own question, and would explain why everyone wants to kill me lol.

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Also the FAQ is a little old (2014) and may not be CCPs current ideas on EVE. They say to look to the EULA for current information.

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"CCP plans to update this guide anually I see after a quick search for PVP on the EULA page, it returns zero results. ;'?

But I did find the current description for EVE from CCP. :slight_smile:

"EVE is a multiplayer role playing game that allows the simultaneous participation of players around the world, interacting in the same game environment. "

I am sorry, I accept the current version of the EULA.

So that means we all can roleplay at whatever we think we are playing.

Space popes, Pirates, Industrialists, Assasins, SPIES, you name it you can do what you like in this sandbox, which started with PVP at its core, which is why it’s so fun.

So what if it’s not fun for everyone, Is that that’s how we balance an MMO, Is it possible to balance an MMO?

Do we make sure that all the characters are in balance, Explorers, achievers, Socialiser, and of course the killers, or is it the imbalance that makes life interesting in EVE?

Enjoy, your EVE however you play it.