Delay Local

There’s a belief on the forums that 0.0 bots dock up immediately the moment you enter the system. I can’t speak for its validity.

Re: my low opinion of these forums, my first ever comment was here.
At the time, anyone making a reasonable statement that argued for any nerf of cloaks got essentially bullied by 2-3 others (Main AFK cloaky thread)
2nd was this quite decent suggestion (like this thread, gets worse as it goes on): Radical improvement to mining: the audible alert module
3rd was this thread.
4th was this decent and uncontroversial suggestion. Better response than the others but still: "Dude, where's my ship?"

There was also an old thread where someone suggested that 0.0 was too big. He got insulted almost as much.

I’ve been in one thread where people weren’t personally attacking each other, making clearly bogus arguments or trolling in a non-humorous way.
Maybe it’s coincidence and I’m stumbling into controversy. But those threads are bad…

I think a lot of the “bad” atmosphere that you see, mainly in the Main AFK Cloaky thread, are carried over from the old forums. This could very well also have an influence on other threads with similar radical suggetions. There will always be people who like or dislike suggestions.

We do encourage Constructive Criticism above all else, you will get a lot further doing this than anything else. We also try improve the try our best to improve the atmosphere when ever we can. :hugs:

I’m very prone to doing just this, when Mining or Ratting, does this make me a “bot”. No, I’m only doing this because;

  1. Mining or PvE ships have small chance of defeating a well prepared “hunter”.
  2. I have limited ‘ship to ship’ PvP experience nor does it really interest me.
  3. to minimize my ship/ISK losses I’d rather dockup just to be safe or sit within the forcefield of a POS if I have to.

No matter how you look at it the “hunter” wins no-matter if he gets a kill or not. you could argue that EVE PvP have become too focused on KB efficiency. What if you could measure the ISK loss through activity disruption?

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I think a significant contribution to the hostility to unpopular ideas is that CCP has, at times, referenced such ideas for unpopular game design choices that seemed to come out of “left field” in the past. Granted that doesn’t seem to be the case much anymore.

This thread hasn’t had anything useful said in it in a while. It just needs to be locked and remain locked. It’s literally down to a few people who refuse to look at the situation in terms of balance or understand human behavior. The fact that @Teckos_Pech has stuck it out as long as he has amazes me, I gave up days ago and only came back to report what I learned while at Fanfest from the round tables. Which is pretty much the only source that could possible matter - from the mouths of the devs themselves. Even then they just thought the idea of OA hacking was interesting, not that they’d do it. Nor that there were any plans to force delayed/removal of local at all at this point.

That seems to indicate to me that this discussion, what little existed, is pretty much over at this point and should be left to die.

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^^ Shocked at trying to get the thread locked after repeatedly losing the argument. /sarcasm.

Do tell. How many forum alts did you use today. :sunglasses:

He can’t. :sunglasses:

Only posts I report are the ones that makes personal insults, or which have nothing to do with topic (trash posts that just want to gish bury content)"

There is a degree of intentional and convenient misreading and misrepresentation of what other say going on, which is an annoyance, but valid form of forum warfare, albeit dishonest/cheap as far as debate goes

Thread is pretty healthy aside from those, imo.


The issue at the core here, is the age old war between PvP and PvE in EVE.

PvE wants maximum profit for minimum risk.
PvP wants maximum targets to blow up.


Pro-delay side sees immediate Local intel as too convenient a tool for PvErs to use to avoid PvP.

Anti-delay side doesnt want to lose that tool, which would require them to generate their intel actively themselves.

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Considering I’ve already stated I’m fine with removing local or delaying it given something like the Observatory array allowing players to claw back a similar level of intel…what were you saying about deliberate misreading? :stuck_out_tongue:

Read what I said again:
“Anti-delay side doesnt want to lose that tool, which would require them to generate their intel actively themselves.”

An OA with which you “claw back” similar level of intel, is requiring you to actively generate that intel yourself.

This misreading is, again, on your part.
Nice try though.

Your idea doesn’t generate more targets. If local was delayed why would I stay in null? If I wanted ISK I’d either move to W space or low sec since you basically turned null into W-space with bad rewards.

The problem here is how you view null space. You think null is built for hunters and it’s not. It’s sov space for fleet warfare. It will always be balanced around fleet warfare, not you.

There are also plenty of PVP targets in null, go fight those. You are not entitled to easily catch PVE ships just because you “PVP” (even though you actually don’t because you only want to kill PVE ships that can’t put up a fight) .

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Player NS would still have the greatest rewards.
If you want to move to WHs or LS, thats your choice.
WHs still wont have any Local intel.

It would remain so also with delayed Local.

This isnt about entitlement, its about balance between PvE and PvP.
You arent “entitled” to PvE easily, either.

Sorry I was not saying that you were picking sides and I would not want you to do, I have seen past ISD’s do that, but that was censoring me and others on my side and giving free reign to the other side, was dreadful to see but he overstretched one day and…

I was just pointing out that he was praising your intervention and then doing what you asked people not to do, I did not reply to him because I did not want to get into an exchange with him as I have him defined as a troll, but I knew he would read it. I had forgotten that I had actually originally replied to you, but I went to speak to my wife and forgot that. So once I posted it I realized and amended the text to make more sense.

Keep doing the job you guys are doing, from my point of view you are so much better than what we had before and these forums are not easy.

Hypothetical:

Lets say CCP introduces a x duration delay in Local in Player NS.
Lets say they also launch OAs at the same time.

We can assume (and I think agree) that OAs will not be prohibitively expensive, or they would favor the rich over the poor too much.

Thus we can expect that OAs will become ubiquitous in Player NS.

Thats where OAs returning Local intel becomes a problem.
Because OAs will be present in most systems, it defeats the purpose/function of delaying Local intel, in the first place.

It makes more sense for OAs to provide other intel services.

That OAs could reduce the duration of the delay, is a possibility, but one I am reluctant to agree with, as they will be everywhere, and will obviously be the preferred function of OAs over all the other possible functions (making the other options largely redundant).

As to OAs returning immediate Local, that would certainly defeat the purpose of delaying Local intel in the first place.

WS space has the best rewards.

But neither would null because delayed local is no different to no local for a PVE player, and Wh space has better rewards…

What makes you the authority on balance?

That is not true.

Not true.
Delayed Local intel is not the same as No Local intel.

I could ask you the same.

Explain

Delayed intel is useless for a PVE player. You are wrong.

You’re the one claiming it’s imbalanced, so you need to prove your claim. It’s not my job to prove the current state is balanced.

Salvos, I was lying in bed before sleeping and I was thinking through this point and for how I operate a delayed local of 30 seconds was worse than having no local at all.

As I said 0.0 has a balance, which you and Loki do not appear to acknowledge.

I can operate with a delayed local and no local in 0.0, however on the other hand I simply would not want to, I think all in all that I would just liquidate all my assets, buy caps and just get involved in a load of battles and lose them and then walk away from Eve, what I like, hard hunting, the cat and mouse of avoiding getting certain death’d in your ratting ship and turning the tables in your PvP ship before they run away would all be destroyed by this change.

Sorry mate, but that would be it, it ruins 0.0 for me…

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No. It is fine. We do not upset the economy all that much, if at all, and if the owner of the OA does not defend it they will be rendered blind. You keep ignoring that the OA would be subject to attack and disruption.

And some of those should be some features of local.

Depends on how it all works.

I didn’t say return immediate local, but claw back some aspects of local. But even if it returned local, directionally I would see it as an improvement as it would now be intel that can be disrupted/destroyed unlike the status quo.

I think an OA that can run multiple intel functions simultaneously would be OP.
What do you think?

What aspects of Local could it claw back?