They completely nerfed mining(technically manufacturing) as a profession (unless you are a large corp who is mostly safe in their part of null sec space). I can’t even get the stuff from wormholes that I need anymore. They eliminated mercoxit from wormholes and nerfed null sec by 90%? really? Morphite has already doubled in price just today.
I just got back into this game about a month ago. I was excited to play again. Exploring wormholes, ramping up on production, buying blueprints. It was just starting to look like I could make decent money producing things.
This update just makes me not want to play anymore. I mean wtf? this is going to cause a huge inflation across the board. If the only way to get decent ores are in null sec, and you can’t mine in null sec because you get ganked, and even null sec was severely nerfed, then only the large corps will be able to do anything. Meaning the large corps will be able to just get stronger while the small corps are left behind with no way to compete.
I mean these were not small changes, these are huge game defining changes to the mining industry. I understand high risk, high reward, but these changes are so drastic, they don’t make sense to me.
Totally agree I like yourself only rejoined less than a month ago and am a solo’er I don’t want to join any corp and have them rob me of 80% of my income just to be a member for starters… It for me just forces those of us that prefer PvE to take huge risks to get anywhere I am seriously considering asking for my Omega subscription money back and leaving the game …
Good job! Whining and complaining about others whining and complaining. Thanks for the constructive feedback.
I looked for other threads and could not find any which is why I finally posted here.
How about some links to other threads, I would love to read them. That is why I posted here, so I can get a sense of why they made such drastic changes.
If I am completely wrong and don’t know what I am talking about, how about you explain why and back up your statement? Tell me why these changes aren’t bad for manufacturing and mining.
Prices for everything are already out of whack, ores and minerals I need are almost near impossible for me to get except for paying 2-3 times as much as they were yesterday. Before the patch, when I reprocessed, I actually increased my net worth, now with the reductions, I lose up to 4/5ths of the value in some cases.
the only thing still worth mining is veldspar. But I can’t manufacture everything from veldspar.
I want to make manufacturing work and make money, but I am just not seeing it with these changes right now. So please, I am begging you, tell me why I am wrong and how the changes make sense and I can benefit from them. This is not an argument, this is me really wanting to know, because I don’t see it.
Well, as far as I can tell, you need a filament to get there. You need 0 Trig standing or better to dock there. All the stations sell the filament back to empire space for 10k isk.
The Trigs are everywhere, in huge swarms - I cannot really imagine coming here to kill Trigs. You cannot use the gates unless you have very high Trig standing. Local is “delayed” - just like in j-space.
Market prices are still adjusting. Estimated market prices lag behind of that.
This conversation has been beat to death in other threads, but I feel like arguing… I mean having a discussion…
Oh, and this will be a wall of text, but I need to catch you up on several months of history, and like 10,000 posts spread out over dozens of threads.
CCP screwed the pooch by overbuffing the Rorqual. Veteran players used skill injectors to train up an army of rorqual alts that pumped vast quantities of ore into the economy. This lead to capital proliferation and slowly dwindling mining incomes (on the plus side, T1 ship costs had dropped by about 50%). CCP decided that this was unsustainable and that something needed to be done.
They decided to fix things with resource scarcity (the rorqual nerf wouldn’t be enough on it’s own). The hope was that it would make people have to burn through their stockpiles of ore. Naturally, this pissed miners off, and many complained that it was ruining mining, industry, and the economy. Mining incomes certainly took a hit, and T1 ship prices shot up, but it didn’t ruin industry or the economy. They also collected data during this time so that they could make informed decisions during the resource distribution phase.
A couple of weeks ago, CCP announces resource distribution. Miners get pissed and claim that mining isn’t worth doing any more (and that it will hurt industry and the economy).
My take on all of this:
First, industrialists will be just fine. It seems like miners try to drag industrialist into this the same was ganker whine threads talk about how ganking hurts newbros. Regardless, industrialists will pass increased costs onto consumers. This will likely reduce sell volumes, which will impact profits, but they’ll survive.
Second, the sugar rush from the rorqual buff is over. Sorry if you missed it, but the sugar crash was inevitable. The only question was how bad and when. CCP could have waited until players demanded that they fix bottoming ore prices, but then the steps required to fix it would have had to have been even more severe. And, of course, people would have complained that they should have acted sooner. Fortunately, they acted before things got any worse.
Third, I am not trying to be an apologist here. CCP did ■■■■ up. However, their mistake was not in trying to fix the problem, but in creating the problem in the first place (overbuffing the rorqual).
Fourth, mining incomes will recover. I doubt they’ll ever reach rorqual glory days levels, but they will get better. It’s simple supply and demand, and I shouldn’t have to explain it. In fact, mineral prices have already gone up considerably since resource scarcity began. Things will take time to adjust, however. Many players have no-lifer sized stockpiles, and this has led to quite a bit of speculation.
Fifth, change provides opportunity. I have not found ways to profit over every change CCP has made, but this mindset has allowed me to profit over a lot of them. I suggest you try to adopt a similar mindset. You’ll probably be a little richer and a lot happier.
Sixth, yes, CCP does sometimes respond to player complaints. But (1) there is no going back, they have committed to fixing this mistake, (2) constructive feedback that can build a consensus is the feedback is most likely to influence where CCP goes from here, (3) you will put yourself in the best position to provide constructive feedback by fulling exploring the mechanics they have given you.
Finally, CCP has been nerfing many careers, and things that CSM’s have said lead me to believe that they are going to keep going (i.e. Gobbins said to hold off on pivoting hard into new careers). If true, this means we should reevaluate what expected incomes should be, and what the isk should be worth. I mean, if one career gets nerfed, then they get ■■■■■■. But if everyone gets nerfed, then it sets a new baseline. Now, anti-botting efforts have likely played a role, but we have seen the prices of pilot services items drop quite a bit already. I know we like to see our numbers go up, but we can also be better off by having our isk gain purchasing power. I know, it would be nice if CCP hit everyone at once, but that’s impractical. So, we’re stuck eating this ■■■■ sandwich one bite at a time.
This list is by no means comprehensive, but it includes three dev threads and a player thread that had a lot of discussion in it.
You need to realize that these changes don’t simply impact you - they impact everyone - higher prices for minerals translate into higher prices for finished goods. Not instantly - it will take a bit of time for the changes to work their way through the supply chain and you’ll need to keep your cost sheet up to date to make sure you’re building stuff that can be sold profitably.
Inflation tends to be good for producers - you’re selling into a rising market. I’m more concerned about the end of the scarcity phase when CCP reopens the faucets and material prices start to fall - which means my inventory will be depreciating and I’ll be selling into a falling market - not fun but I expect it, am planning for it and will survive it!
Thanks @Shipwreck_Jones !. As a returning player scratching his head at the mining changes and wondering how this will affect ship prices (I expect they will rise), this is the most cogent and helpful explanation I’ve seen so far.
I do say, I will adjust and overcome, but I just got my bearings, learning what I need to do, researched costs of everything and just started feeling comfortable to dive into this. I have come to realize that this will essentially cause an inflation as demand will be greater than the supply. This seems good for miners, but puts a halt on making and selling things for a bit while prices adjust for manufacturers. However, that was another thing that basically just messed me up. We just built a fleet of wormhole mining ships ($5mill ventures). We were all ready and set to commence with our plan that we spent a month coming up with to now have to wait and reassess our next move. We can still go wormhole mining, but the main ores I was looking at to mine for their minerals are gone or the minerals changed.
That being said, really I guess there were only 2 basic issues I had and mainly because they both happened. The rest, I understand and can accept even though it seems like they made huge changes and nerfs to the ores themselves.
They got rid of a couple high level ores in wormhole space. That makes those ores only accessible in null space now. Unless you are with a huge corp or alliance and own your own piece of space, it makes it almost impossible to go mine in null sec.
the same ores they removed from wormhole space, they nerfed available rate by 90%. So now, not only can I not have access to mine for the minerals (morphite) myself, the price will skyrocket for when I need to purchase to build things.
Those two combined really hits hard. If they had nerfed the ores by 90% and still left available to come across in wormhole, then at least I would have felt there was a possibility to run across them on our own and not have to always purchase for our needs.
Honestly, we don’t mine for profit (directly). We mine for self sufficiency and for production for profit. At least that was the plan. We will see how it all plays out over the next few weeks. I still feel, at least in the short term, manufacturing is taking a big hit with this patch.
I actually told my corp mate that this could be good for those who only mine for profit. With less supply, the prices will rise, thus possibly making their mining time much more valuable and profitable.
Hum? On the contrary, as HS is the only source for trit, more people will come to mine in HS. And for regular HS miners, it means more profit. Of course, it also means more juicy targets for gankers, but it’s up to you to mine in a procurer or skiffs to make the ganker’s life more difficult.
No more belts in NS. But with sovereignty, mining clusters can spawn so fortunately mining remains possible in NS. Now, if you are a solo miner, coming to a mining cluster in a system “owned” by a corporation is not without risks… I don’t think you could survive enough to fill your cargo hold. To make the cluster spawn, a corporation have to actively mine in the system days after days. So you won’t find a mining cluster in an uninhabitated system: if there is a cluster, there are regular miners here…