With local gone in nullsec soon, you will likely shake up the landscape for some time, but once everything settles down, it will be worse than before.
The reason: supercap umbrellas and very big groups become even more important in unsafer space.
The only possible counter except nerfing supercaps into oblivion: remove the normal cyno module from the game. Jumping to variable positions is further possible only with covert warfare.
This will create some fallout on logistics, but Upwell gates and cyno beacons are a thing, which can be allowed in lowsec and foreign sov space as compensation.
This was recently proposed in the thread Kill all Cyno! and got ROFL-Stomped pretty hard.
If you identify specific problems, propose specific solutions, and why the net effect is overall better than the status quo, we mat be amenable to listen.
See my reasoning above. The only way to break a supercap umbrella is to get rid of jump capability of the involved ships (hence make it dysfunctional). Alternately you can remove jump drives from caps, or remove supercaps and Titans from the game.
BTW, I don’t need to reason more than CCP with their local nerf.
@Xialis There is so much I want to say to you… but I’m going to hold my tongue.
I will say, however, that I’d like to give @Tipa_Riot the opportunity to learn from your thread (what ideas were raised, the feedback that was given, the refinements proposed and feedback to those refinements, etc) so she can be as constructive as possible in this one. She has the opportunity to present problems, make a case for why they are problems, provide evidence to support the arguments, propose solutions, justify why they would work, identify problems arising from the solutions and how they could be addressed or why they’re worth accepting, and ultimately do so in such a way that collaborates with rather than antagonizing the community.
I’m sorry, but this is quite insufficient, and I’m hoping you know this. You are going to have to go in substantially more detail than this as if it were a 2-4 page college persuasive essay (at LEAST - for an introduction - this will get quite extensive as the debate goes on). The changes you are proposing are monumental and no one is going to read a paragraph like that and go “oh yeah okay let’s make those changes”
You need to make a case as to whether or not the solution is the best solution to an actual problem. And not everyone agrees that the problem exists - you need to make a case for it, too.
Exactly this shall happen. Just do it, don’t talk, don’t argue, just do it. All the people who want to keep the status quo will oppose it, regardless of effort put into arguments. Actually the more “obvious” opposition, the better the idea.
It’s a game, you can change rules, and see what happens. I regained some faith in CCP after the recent bold moves. Now its time to do more bold moves.
Nobody requires cynos to play, they are just convenience, as local is.
Well, at least you are straight forward about how you’re approaching this. You’re not conjuring up absurd reasons and making excuses and falsifying evidence as to why this should happen, you’re just saying “I think we should do this because of X”. I can somewhat respect that.
So I can give you my equally brief “No” in opposition. No bickering, no arguing, no antagonizing. Have a good day
Damn I like this thread so much better than the other one. Although the other one did make me laugh hard.
That’s fair. Finally CCP needs to decide, I’m not doing their work. Here is my voice, and I’m willing to discuss details further in the comment section of a dev post/blog.
That’s the only way forward. No one needs these ships, no one needs these pilots, no one needs the problems these ships create. Remove Titans and Supers and Rorquals form EVE and all problems are fixed.
Or you know, people move onto the next cancerous meta. Time and time again people will find the next thing to make others cry and I say that as someone that has played this game for a long time.
RIP nano ships and 12km/s vagas.
Ignore the haters. CCP is currently redesigning nullsec. It’s absolutely the time to start rethinking cynos, cloaking, gatecamping, supercap proliferation etc.
Hotdropping is just bad game design. The game should be encouraging fair fights and the best natural way to do that is to allow both sides see the other’s strengths.
So we can either remove normal cynos from the game or have them impose big penalties that make whatever ship jumps through temporarily vulnerable.
More counterplay options could be added like more kinds of cyno inhibs (just small to large t1 and t2 atm that have different ranges, anchor times and hp aswell as costs)
For cloaking depth charges of some kind could be good, especially now blackout will force coaked ships to be within 14au or even watching distance.
Mines too maybe but theyd have to have a time limit.
Couple of things id like to add as counters for different ways to do things but in essence cynos are the way to get capitals moved so… well…
As for cloaking, i mean… its a scifi game; why are people moaning about cloaking lol - but blackout should cure the afk cloaking issue
Depth charges would be cool, and I guess you could stick them in the off High slot. You’d still need to know the invisible ship exists and be able to narrow down its location.
There are three semi invisibility options:
Appear on D-scan
Appear on overview
Appear to combat probes.
None of these would allow the invisible ship to be targeted.
I see no harm doing the latter today. The greater the size, mass (and speed) of the invisible ship, the more easily combat probes could scan them down.
One of the benefits of owning space is the ability to drop an overwhelming defensive force on a small group of attackers. I would even go so far as to say that the ability to do so is a prerequisite to truly owning space.
Hotdropping isn’t broken in and of itself. Even hotdropping titan fleets isn’t broken.
The fact that large blocs have amassed so much in-game wealth that they can treat titans as disposable ships and overwhelm an opponent to the point where they don’t even bother to show up and defend is a problem. But that’s an issue with economics and player dynamics, not cyno or jump drive mechanics.
Lastly…if you want fair fights you’re doing it wrong…
was thinking more of a new mechanic maybe like the engines leaving a trail or something; barely detectable but more for fun tbh but if the ship is still for xxx amount of time = no trace… and it would have to be a faint trace too, ■■■■maybe even echo location should work y’know.
Not entirely sure why you’re entitled to own space. You or anyone else.
The fact that large blocs have amassed so much in-game wealth that they can treat titans as disposable ships and overwhelm an opponent to the point where they don’t even bother to show up and defend is a problem. But that’s an issue with economics and player dynamics, not cyno or jump drive mechanics.
Agree with that.
Lastly…if you want fair fights you’re doing it wrong…
I presume if you had any rational justification for your opinion, you’d have stated it.
Because it is a concept in the game that includes a lot of game play?
Pretty much the opposite. The game was built around PvP, so you don’t get to own anything unless it’s docked up in an NPC station or in your bank account.
So using a misunderstood and broken concept to justify bad game design is kinda the opposite of what I and hopefully CCP are interested in.
