The Protected Criminal

Council Of Stellar Management Assembly Hall
43

If we want to go for a little bit of realism. When an accident occurs, the victims get insurance (the same as we have in eve), however the insurance company would then sue the person at fault for that damage/accident. Translating that to eve:

If you gank a freighter in High sec, which has an insurance payout of ~800Mil or whatever, you should be unable to undock without being destroyed by concord until they have blown up 800Mil worth of ships, or you pay an 800Mil fine to cover the insurance that needed to be paid out.

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44

The issue we’ve had with you Carebears for a long time is that you REFUSE to get your head out of your ass and see the game from another person’s point of view. Ganking is DIFFICULT. There are TONS of people that anti-gank. There are VERY FEW gankers even left. It is a dying activity as CCP has made it SO risky and SO expensive to get into that we no longer get new players.

High-sec PvP is actually on its last limb entirely because of lazy and entitled players like you CONSTANTLY whining for nerfs to a part of the game that you not only have the ability to completely avoid (were you not simply too lazy to do so) but also do not understand in the slightest. If you want EvE online to exist even 5 years from now this has got to start moving the other direction. We’ve already lost half our playerbase to this carebear entitlement. Lets not make the same mistake again. Okay?

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45

I’m sure some of this has been said, so I apologize for any redundant information that’s already been shared.

It seems that @Kill4Jesse_J doesn’t quite understand the difference between being in Criminal timer status, which is a 15 minute timer where you are flashy, anyone can attack you without penalty, there are re-shipping penalties, plus sec status, and in high-sec space you’ll lose your ship to CONCORD. Once that timer is up they are no longer in Criminal timer status.

Being in negative Security status can have some penalties, depending on how negative that pilot’s sec status is. The focus would be on a sec status of -5.0 to -10.

A pilot in this state, known as a perma-flashy, has a number of obstacles to deal with while in high-sec space. Faction police NPC will chase and harass them, and can destroy them, but you can escape and avoid them, and of course any other player can engage them without penalty or CONCORD intervention. They will in turn receive the Limited Engagement timer as long as aggression continues.

A perma-flashy is NOT a Criminal. A pilot can easily get into perma-flashy status from engaging in aggressive PvP in low-sec space, although suicide ganking and podding is a faster way to achieve that. As such, they not being in Criminal status have all the same freedoms and restrictions as any other pilot. They just have to contend with what their negative sec status allows other players to do, and of course the NPC Faction police when travelling/operating in high-sec space.

They already have “penalties” to deal with by remaining in perma-flashy status. And of course the penalties for being in Criminal timer status are harsh, swift, and very limiting on a pilot while the timer is active, and they have frak all to do with sec status. They are separate. CONCORD doesn’t care about a pilot’s security status; they only care when a pilot has taken criminal action to earn the 15 minute Criminal timer.

Understand the mechanics and penalties first. Your proposals add no value to the game, only increased penalties and restrictions on those pilots in a sandbox universe that you don’t care to see succeed. Suicide gankers and their tactics are easy to both spot and avoid. And keep your arguments to within the game and it’s mechanics, don’t bring in crap from real-life or other games. Those are simply straw arguments and have no merit or basis within EVE Online.

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46

Taken alone that may be true. But these ideas combined with other ideas could add a LOT of value.

Something I don’t talk about much is how I would like to see a ton of NPC powers and actions removed from the game. I would like to see EVE become more player centered and the actions and powers of Concord and FacPo far more limited.

So yeah, I often talk about adding penalties and difficulties to pirates/ gankers as well, but at the same time I have also brought up getting Concord so far out the picture a ganker could gank multiple ships and fly off to gank some more. I don’t want Concord on MY kill.

What annoys me most about EVE (as opposed to all that I love that keeps me playing) is the sheer volume of inconsistency with so many everyday concepts. So much here you just have to remember how it works rather than just follow what would make perfect sense. So I listen favorably to ideas that would remove such inconsistency, with a mind that balance may need to be restored via another change here and there. Its about the only way progress is going to happen, and its obvious even the ones who claim ganking is too hard want some sort of progress and change. Who knows where it could all go if both sides worked together rather than bicker against the other all the time?

Am I missing something? You lose security status by committing crimes, such as attacking citizens. Those who commit crimes are criminals. Having incurred a criminal timer/ temporary red flashy and having a semi-permanent red flashy are two situations with both differences and overlap, but generally speaking, you got to be a criminal to have either, whether accidental criminal (shot some loot) or as a chosen career path.

But of course its the mind boggling inconsistency of the situations that are part of my issue at the top of this post. I am not quite sure how to sort it and not expecting a change to ever happen though. Its not worth my time to think too much about it or I might come up with some great ideas. But its not like CCP is desperate to listen to me.

How many anti-gankers are successful though? Are you implying that anti-gankers are the ones making ganking difficult? Cause I don’t feel that’s the case. I think its NPCs doing that, but I wish it was the anti-gankers in their place.

47

Criminal status is associated with the 15-minute crime watch flag.

Outlaw is the term for someone that is permanently flashy under crimewatch (and occurs for lowsec pvpers, who never do anything illegal in highsec and are in lowsec fighting other people looking for pvp). You don’t even have to have ever been criminal once, to be an outlaw.

Unfortunately the flavour text in the game mixes and matches the terms, but under crimewatch, criminals and outlaws are different things and have different consequences.

All detailed in the devblog from 2012 when Crimewatch was changed:

https://www.eveonline.com/article/introducing-the-new-and-improved-crimewatch.

We are flying underwater spaceships in a different galaxy, 20000 years in the future after the human race jumped through a wormhole, with characters that are immortal because of access to cloning technology and the ability to plug implants into our skull.

EVE isn’t a simulation and even if it were, nothing about insurance now is likely to apply 20000 years from now. Even insurance 150 years ago was different to the way it is today. The idea of having “realistic” insurance is on par with having “realistic” faster than light speed travel.

48

Recently I have come to think of it as an interactive space-themed comic book closer to Flash Gordon than Star Trek. It sure helps me deal with the illogic and inconsistencies better. It even fits the often outrageous dialoug from mission agents.

I do wish for more real world logic, consistency, real world physics (where applicable such as how ships move) and more real world sense in various interactions (such as how criminals and outlaws are dealt with)(don’t get me wrong, Wild West outlaws also evaded capture) (and real world police also cannot protect you). But what I expect in change is exactly zero. A person can dream right?

49

A post from a ganker I agree with :thinking: in many area’s , I really don’t know the answer but I hope we both survive.

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50

Nothing last forever but if eve online can reach another 13 years or beyond that would be cool.

51

Honestly, as much as it pains me to say it, I doubt it will. CCP has completely lost touch. The CSM is full of a bunch of carebears. Check my topic out on the CSM boards to see prime CSM ignorance first hand High Sec Logistics Mechanic Adjustment Request/Suggestion

CCP acknowledge that they need more destruction but then double down on PvP nerfs and replace us with NPCs… trassssshhhh

They’ve been doing nothing but trying to bubble-wrap whales for a looooong time and they have stealth nerfed our group in almost every patch in the last 10 years. I imagine it’s because of kills like this https://zkillboard.com/kill/88799565/

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52

A little bit of hyperbole there. 1 patch directly targetted remote reps, but it’s ironic that in a thread that’s crying about how ciminals have it too easy, you are crying about the game being too hard.

Grow a pair of balls and adapt like everyone. Moaning like a carebear isn’t going to draw much sympathy (as demonstrated in both your whine threads so far).

53

There are mannnnny nerfs that came before that sir. If you had any clue what you were talking about, which you clearly do not, you would know this.

Also I have adapted. I will always find a way to adapt… that doesn’t mean that the adaptions are better gameplay.

Also x2 what do you care, you PvP in low/null (which is further proof that you have no idea what you’re talking about). You’re just mad because my form of gameplay doesn’t abide by your space-bushido ■■■■■■■■.

54

Can I have your stuff?

Soooo many nerfs to suspect baiting with neutral logi…

I’m mostly a highsec wardeccer these days (if you check the last kill on Scipio, it was a few months ago), but such is EVE, this isn’t my only character.

I couldn’t care less what style of gameplay you want to play. They are all valid. I just see tears and as is tradition in EVE, express the HTFU option.

55

@Scipio_Artelius

Ah got it. Again I don’t NEED logi to bait successfully. I’m making billions a day baiting. I’m not repeatedly making this request because I want to be OP (I will always be OP :P). I’m requesting this change so that my friends and I can have a way to play together again.

But just so you know, I have HTFU. If you look at this chars zkill you will see quite a successful week of suicide ganking and if you’re smart enough to find my main (actually its not that hard :P) you will see quite a successful month of mission baiting.

I’m just trying to get through to CCP before the High-Sec PvP community dies completely. It is seriously dwindling. I’m not even worried about me, which is what most people misconstrue about my posts. I will always be successful. The problem is, now when I find a new player interested in doing what I do their final response is always “ah I don’t have nearly enough isk to get into that” because the mechanics have been made SO tedious and SO risky on the criminal end that the only way to really break into the profession is throwing your credit card at it.

Furthermore, because of the logi change, I have no combat role for them to fill. Back when I did, I would split earnings with those who logi’d me (even if I didn’t need it) so the new players could make isk while they learn the ropes. Now? They get as far as “ah I don’t have nearly enough isk to get into that”, run missions until they’re bored to tears and probably quit the game.

56

On the other side of the coin it’s as cheap as chips to hunt these criminals and stop them. It’s not easy to do as they want to live to complete there attack but when we do stop them it’s worth the effort.
High sec should be safe but it’s not CCP that should make it safe , should it not be us , we have the tools but very few people want to take action.
The other day AG stopped 2 ganks in a row and 1 a bit later on with about 6 pilots , that’s how little it takes to drive them away
If you want change stop playing solo , make a character that stands for something other than mining at 100% efficiency, join a group and do something ,be it Ag, ganking , high sec war Dec, anti high sec war Dec’s the list is endless.

The other day I watched a jita baiter he was flashing yellow, on his own with what must have been 100 pilots around the station ,the odd one fired on him and they died, now if a large % of these pilots opened fire on him I bet he would move on .

Criminal are protected by one thing
Our own inactivity.

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57

That is a really interesting statement since your whole post seemed to be about the failure of players to band together. And I think with that failure you have a real point. It is definitely one of the things at least which allows criminal activity to continue.

However, when you get into the reasons why players don’t band together against criminals it becomes clear why it is such a rare occurence. For one thing, trust is as rare as diamonds in EVE. EVE’s biggest stories are tales of backstabbing. There is precious little stopping somone in your band that you don’t know IRL at all, from betraying your whole band. Since CEOs have done it even to large corporations, what is to stop your wingman doing it to you? Then there is the issue of targets, an issue that gankers dont have as bad. So you formed a gang to try and catch other gangs at just the right time, when those gangs are choosing from hundreds of potential targets and playing and logging off at their liesure. Criminal gangs are making things go BOOM all the time, having loads of kills and excitement. Anti-ganking and other criminal hunting is not nearly so action packed. But criminals are having fun and even if they get backstabbed they just find someone else to run with because trust is not a real issue for people who fly cheap ships of one or two types with intent to lose them. But criminal hunters I don’t think can fly the equivalent ships and succeed. And each time they upgrade to a more capable ship trust becomes an issue; they don’t want to lose expensive ships to backstabbers.

6 pilots to stop one gank? Or 3 in some amount of time? And then divvy up loot? That does not sound like a group I would join casually at all. It would take a long time for me develop trust. And then I bet I would eventually regret it.

Now I am not saying profitable ganking is easy. But it seems to me that its done solo multiboxing more than anything. But profitable or otherwise successful anti-ganking? I think its rare for more reasons than just “too lazy or proud to form a gang”.

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58

Yes we do fly cheap ship, all we fly we are happy to lose, we sometimes get given ships to fly ,like a fleet of Armageddon which we have use very successfully ,
Yes I understand your point about trust and that takes time , if new players are around we use very cheap ships and try and have fun so like ganker it doesn’t matter if they backstabb us.
One successful ship ,our fast locking Atron to pull them out of there fleets works very well and if they gank us no great loss.

Bling ships would be more affected but the risk lvl is higher .

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59

Don’t really do it as a profitable enterprise it’s the pleasure of them failing that drives me , like many of the gankers we have other streams of money.

But saying all the above you would be surprise how much money we get, in the form of isk and ships , our main problem right now is pilots with many of my corp away with real stuff, but we keep plugging away

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60

Cheers and happy hunting! Many details remain a mystery to me, and no need to explain any more here. I just hope for your continued success!

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61

Make an alt to fly a snipper cat and join us in Uedama when the big gank fleets are around

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62

Sounds like a hoot! I will contact you in game about that in the near future. Thanks for the invite!

P.S. It will be this character that contacts you to identify the ALT. Accept no substitutes!

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