What do you guys think about training for multiple factions?

Specifically how do you feel about the multiple factions sharing training skills. So no more amarr -frigate skill, instead just frigate. Im curious to know how people feel about that and if they think the multiple races are worth it, or if eve would of just been better off with out.

on the graphical side, i like multiple options of ships but i feel like the training is a bit much.

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A few years ago it was the case with some ships. Then they changed it to racial. Not going to lie it was a dog with my alts to get through racial BC5 for each race.

However with the introduction of skill injectors I do not see it getting less, I see more skills being introduced.

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I am not so sure about that, though i dont ever recall a time where the primary races had shared piloting skills on the ship classes.

One of the main reasons for the loss of players is the direct sustainability of the “engagement state”, or the state at which players are engaged with the game. its highly paramount that the game keep this up, and to be honest eve’s progressively longer training times are really a killer for that, and subsequently the retention rates.

Im of the opinion that all ships should individually take 30 days or less to train, but it should be constructed in a way that the ships always take some around of time around that, so going from a carrier to a dread will take a month for example.

Im not really a supported of even the same ship classes having the same training options and i’d like diversity in it, so that people really need to make smart choices about how they train, which itself will help the engagement factor.

Injectors destroy that, imo they should be deleted but they are a great cash grab for ccp so that will be a hard pill to swallow.

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Battlecruiser used to be shared among faction until CCP split them up. That was not that long ago… 5-6 years maybe?

Injectors is the only reason I am back in the game and playing again. I was not going to slog through 120 mil SP again over the next 3-4 years just to get a awesome subcap pilot.

However I do agree the long training only adds to the notion of a “must have alts” to do multiple things well. Which benefits ccp since a single player might have more chars. Hence why I have a dedicated scout/RR/booster alts.

That does put many potensial players off since they will always feel like they are playing catch up.

*** Injector argument aside… It is actually a great equalizer for new players willing to dump $$$ into plex and isk to buy them and skill up quickly.

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Yeah, that was Destroyers and Battlecruisers.

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Imgur

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And this is why we know you are lying about how long you have played EVE.

Also racial skill lines are done to encourage specialisation. Just like classes in other MMOs are levelled separately.

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Honestly id rather have generic ship class skills to open use of all ships of that class…then specific ship specialization skills.

So the time it takes to jump into your alliances ship doctrine would be far less and not open to doctrine changes causing you issues, however, the specialization skill would allow small bonuses only applicable to that ship.

Get everone in,ships faster, make it harder to be fully optimized in specific ship s…versus a long time to get into a ship and be optimized.

Anything under large module ships should be a fairly quick train to use, with specific ship specialization skills taking very long for lv5. Large module ships taking a medium amount of time and long times for cap and above.

So maybe more skills but less needed to hop into a ship and use t1 fittings.

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what is nice in eve is that you can still be useful, as a newbie, in a t1 cheap frig, and don’t have to wait for being able to fly blingy HACs of your alliance doctrine to join pvp fleets.
You can be a tackler, or just fly a vigil with a target painter, etc

Whereas in other MMOs you rarely do pvp before reaching the max level.

So the “the time it takes to jump into your alliances ship doctrine” is most often not a problem. The problem is the desire people have to fly more blingy ships with more dps/tank etc. Or they get this feeling from their alliance fcs, that you are not worth anythg if you don’t fly the expensive alliance doctrine fit.
Good alliances don’t do that

Of course some very specific fleets won’t be for newbies in cheap ships (black ops, t3cs with travel fit to travel far,…). But most pvp fleets will be open to them

The time it takes to level up the skills is somethg very specific to eve. And everythg which makes eve closer than “usual” mmos is a bad idea imo.
If we go further in your direction, why don’t we just give to everybody the skills to fly all ships in the game from the beginning? It would allow to “Get everone in,ships faster,”…

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If we get Drifter F/DD/C/BC/BS soon™, then Precursor ship (and weapon?) skills will be useful for multiple (relatively) new races, kinda like what OP’s talking about with regards to the regular ol’ 4 empire races.

In another thread he talks about the whole BOB and Ascendant whatsit and the first titans and everything. It’s quite possible he was playing EVE in the early days of the game but then stopped for many years, missed the entire Destroyers/Battlecruisers skill change of 2013 (I myself started playing during Odyssey just a few weeks after that change, so I had no chance to take part in that nice free SP giveaway… but I was around for the next summer’s Light/Medium drone op split on 2 toons + all the nice free Geckos we got… again, on 2 toons).

Anyway, maybe not. But just trying to give the benefit of the doubt. Some of you seem to have been having some issues with 'im for the past… few weeks? months? I just started talking with him (in that other thread) this very week, so… I’m a newb (AGAIN), oh noe!

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@Sylvia_Kildare - good friend naari is quite entertaining the wise and valued member of EvE.

naari’s campaign thread was closed and 24 posts removed from it (a bit of a shame really, as some of them were…interesting).

but wait! There’s more! (much more…)

:heart: you, naari / nuuri / noori, you are awesome!

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Battlecruisers and Destroyers? Hello? You can literally Google this. So much for someone who claims to have been playing EVE for years.

So you’ve been playing since 2003, but can’t remember such a big update to the Battlecruiser and Destroyer skills that took place in 2013?

Since they significantly reduced training times to get into the ships, I’m fine with it.

Nope, if the pirate faction ships didn’t exist I might think otherwise.

Injectors would not be needed if the skill point requirements for each type was reduced, and reworked.

This is one of my major argument points for the retention rate issues. If the training was only a month, it would be bare-able, or even exciting to be able to fly the “next ship”. I would even be open to not slapping all the core ship types into one skill book for each class, if each class+race took a month to get into. However, getting into a covert ops in each race, takes a few months. This is definately one of the biggest problems for retention rates.

historically in the industry the biggest issue we had with games like eve, which were predominately more flat-lined in their power gains was that they lost the interest of people quickly. Even thankfully has lots of tools, we we know as ship classes.

This could potentially be the single greatest solution to eve’s retention rate issues, or, for the most part almost all of it. it might be interesting to even allow new players to select a ship class to get all the skills in to pilot after a series of introduction missions. This would serve as a better tutorial, and a massive boost to encouragement to keep playing. It even doubles over for vets with alt accounts. Granted, we’d have to limit it to something like dictors, covert ops etc.

Yes, and ccp knows that and made a very greed cash grab move. I suspect this was largely driven by investors or major stakeholders, which seems to suggest that hellmar is largely and solely responsible for it.

No, its an abusive system intended to milk money at the cost of the player base of the game. If I could be so blunt i suspect hellmar would expect that to kill the game, and did not care just seeking to capitalize off it before the end. Lets face it, eve is drawing close to the end of its days, and it will take a massive battle of epic proportions to keep it alive another decade.

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Actually, it is a very long time, If you consider that 3-4 months compared to the 10-15 seconds it takes for a person to decide to stay in a game or not.

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Oh! An international lawsuit where Naari contends CCP made him look dumb, until the judge reads your other posts :rofl:

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People watch too many TV legal dramas. People imagine that they know about the law. ^^

You don’t need to hire a lawyer if your idea of “winning” is getting your account banned.

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you don’t seem to have read correctly my post: i wrote that eve mechanics allows you to be able to join pvp fleets quickly, in a cheap t1 tackling frig or in a vigil with a target painter, without waiting for 3-4 months… Your answer has no sense

Furthermore, you compare in the same sentence the time it takes to fly a ship and the time it could take to a new player to take a decision.
If i read you correctly, new players decide to stay or not after 10-15sec of play time? surely not. A valuable comparison would be between time to be able to fly a ship and play time before deciding to stay or not. As i said it takes only a few days to fly a tackling t1 frig or a vigil. And if people decide to leave before that, i would say good riddance…

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This cop out does not work with me.

No player just entering the game has the skill points to survival in null. Anywhere else alone they are food and easy pickings not only because of their ignorance, but because of their massive skill point disadvantage.

Yes, they do. This is how it is with all games, its a well known statement from the industry. You have 10 to 15 seconds capture your player base, if they play 45 seconds they are more likely to stay for 60 minutes, and if they stay for that more likely to play a month.

Everything hinges on that very short time of starting a game. a long term player is made in that very short time.

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